2017 Amendment to the 2002 Gore Mountain UMP

And the zip line should be on Uncas, not at the Snow Bowl.

mm

Milo Maltbie wrote

And the zip line should be on Uncas, not at the Snow Bowl.

Ziplines are out. Zipcoasters are in!

Cool idea about Uncas, one of Gore's most inspiring views IMO.

I spoke to Bone about this on Sunday.  It's not going at the Ski Bowl but I can't remember where it is going.

Replace the Hudson chair with a HSQ? Has the current lift ran more than 10 days this year? This one makes absolutely no sense to me.

I like the high peaks double and am fine with its termination point. Open Pit is a perfectly fine way to get to straightbrook. The chair is old, though, so maybe maintenance/realibility are driving the upgrade. I wouldn't pay more to get a custom/semi-custom double but would prefer they keep it as close to original as possible.

I recall the sunway chair can get crowded on holidays so an upgrade there probably makes sense.

Doubling the snowmaking capacity so they can recover from events like we've had the last two weeks will  increase visits way more than any lift will.

tom

raisingarizona wrote

High speed chairs are sweet, especially with the costs of today’s lift tickets. I really prefer spending more time on my skis than sitting in a chair.

At the same time, there's something to be said for sitting on that old slow chair with the sun on your face, surrounded by trees, while your tired legs recover from ripping Spring corn and bumps...

Also sometimes the HS chair moves the waiting time off the chair and into the lift line.

Milo Maltbie wrote

x10003q wrote

Do you realize that the High Peaks lift went to the top prior to the 1995 renovation? You were able to access all the Straight Brook trails from the top. The current top location was the result some sort of compromise during the renovation. The factors that drove the decision are no longer valid.

Why would the new lift have to run at a slower line speed? Quads are better in the wind due to the weight of the chair. Go ride the Straight Brook quad if you want to ride a fast FGQ. The top of Cloud is pretty wind protected by trees and wind would be less of a factor than you think.

What was the compromise that made them shorten the old Summit lift?  What factors are no longer valid?  

There was a plan to replace the old red gondola that went to the summit of Gore with another gondola that went to the summit. The top terminal site was the top of the High Peaks double. Later plans put the gondola top terminal in its current location.

Milo Maltbie wrote

Quads and triples generally run slower ropes speeds than doubles and singles. Ride the MRG single on a busy day.  It's noticeably faster than any other fixed grip. High rope speeds exacerbate loading problems, and it gets worse when the seats get wider.

Nope. Top speed for current fixed grip chairs is around 550 ft/min. The size of the chair does not matter. There are other factors (eg: level of the skiers using the chair) determine the line speed.

Milo Maltbie wrote

Access to Chatiemac or Rumor for one run from the HP side doesn't add much to the whole experience IMO. Maybe if I got to the top of HP just as patrol was dropping the rope on Rumor on powder day, that would be cool.

mm

Having a chair stop short of the top for reasons that no longer apply makes no sense. Adding another 680 ft to the High Peaks chair greatly increases the flexibility of the management to open Gore and operate the upper mountain with more efficiency. It would also help spread skiers out over the upper mountain. The High Peaks chair went to the top from 1967 to 1996.

Just getting the facts straight on some incorrect information posted here before.  Doubles are still very much in production.  Partek built two in the last 5 years.  One in 2012 at Mountain Creek and one in 2016 at the North Carolina State Fair.  Skytrac also built one at Crystal Mountain in Washington in 2014.  All manufacturers have the same chair design that works with doubles triples and quads and the chairs are made to order with the lift so it really doesn't cost anything extra to get a double over a triple or quad.  You choose your capacity and decide what chair size and interval is needed to meet it.

And MRG didn't refurbish the single.  They replaced it with a custom made new single, but reused some of the original structural elements.  No moving parts remain from the original.  It has completely new chairs that were custom made.  Of course that cost more than buying a new double or triple, but MRG wanted preserve the experience of the single, so they paid whatever it cost to do that.

I think the best thing is that the UMP doesn't include any money to actually build stuff. The 2002 UMP had lots of new trails through glades and trail widening that never happened.  That would have only made Gore worse for advanced skiers, without improving it for intermediates/beginners.  The 2005 amendment has a 2 way gondola serving the base lodge, Snow Bowl and North Creek.  That will never happen.  

mm

Harvey wrote

Ziplines are out. Zipcoasters are in!

Cool idea about Uncas, one of Gore's most inspiring views IMO.

I spoke to Bone about this on Sunday.  It's not going at the Ski Bowl but I can't remember where it is going.

Cool! Maybe we'll finally get springtime access to Straightbrook by a zipcoaster!  Everyone laughed at me last year when I proposed that, but now I am vindicated!  They should name it after me.  I am a visionary, and a winner!

mm

tjf1967 wrote

Me to! but something is to be said about old slow lifts.  I wend to mad river after a 5 foot cycle the first day they were spinning.  The single line took like 45 minutes.  Lots of pompous crunchy dudes in line they like to tell their stories which are only exciting to them..but that's a different story.    When you did finally get off the lift you really felt like you had the trails to yourself.  Snow stayed good all day.  Only got like 6 runs in that day because of the lines but they are some of the best powder runs I have ever made.  I have thought about it and for Mad River it works(and they can keep it) but for me I like small lift lines and lots of runs.

Yup. On the other extreme, stand on the side of, oh, say, Skyelark at Killington on a busy Saturday and watch the mayhem that results from two quads and a gondola discharging full loads of skiers in essentially the same spot on that mountain. Wear a helmet!

I used to see a quote a lot from Alf Engen of Alta fame about why that mountain had no quads (at the time). "Roooons the snow."

Yeah but everything about Killingtons “planning” is a complete shit show.

One thing I'd like to add is a pulse gondola between the ski bowl and downtown North Creek and a huge slopeside hotel at both the main base and ski bowl.  Those staying at the Ski Bowl hotel would have direct access to the slopes and the town without having to take a car or bus which is almost unheard of anywhere.  North Creek's economy would grow by a factor of 10 or more and you'd see dozens of new businesses opening.

Somewhere on the internet an artists rendering of this exists. I wish I could find it.  I remember it posted on Skiadk, where it was the subject of some scorn and some praise.

Lift 14 (the original) a transfer lift that ran between ski bowl and the Gore base, which was part of that plan, is still on the UMP.

That would certainly create more pressure to open the ski bowl by Christmas.

What is a pulse gondola?

Harvey wrote

Lift 14 (the original) a transfer lift that ran between ski bowl and the Gore base, which was part of that plan, is still on the UMP.

That would certainly create more pressure to open the ski bowl by Christmas.

What is a pulse gondola?

I don't know if pressure to open the Ski Bowl early is a good thing.  Maybe that would just divert snowmaking resources from Topridge.  

Snowmass has a pulse gondola.  The fixed grip cabins are bunched up in groups of three, and they stop at the loading/landing zones.  It's cheaper than a detachable gondola, but slower.  The rope speed is slow, and you have to choose between frequent stops or long waits for a cabin.  It's good for short spans, but probably not all the way from town to base, or even ski bowl to base.

mm

They need to double their snowmaking capacity first.  Enough to open every pod by Christmas.

North Creek to ski bowl is a pretty good length for a pulse gondola and the capacity requirement is not high.  A pulse gondola is used to get detachable speeds at a fixed grip price.  They can move up to 1000fpm but slow down to gondola loading speed each time a group of cabins enters the loading area.  The groups of cabins must be even and symmetrical.  Most have two or four groups.  If there is more than two groups the lift will slow in the middle of the ride.

Milo Maltbie wrote

I don't know if pressure to open the Ski Bowl early is a good thing.

IMO at this level of snowmaking it isn't. The disagreement usually comes with the order of operations.

Adding lifts doesn't help the situation unless you add more snow first.  With better snow, you could easily imagine  North Creek/Gore to develop like Park City or Telluride, with lifts directly from town to trails.  OTOH no matter how much you develop facilities at Gore, tourists will only remember skating long traverses to nowhere.

mm

Agreed.  Snowmaking comes first.  But you also need lodging and better lifts.

I have 7 lifts in my homogenization plan.  HSQ's to replace Hudson, North, and Sunway.  Then three fixed grip chairs to replace High Peaks, add the Bear Cub chair that's in the UMP and a real estate lift below Burnt Ridge.  Lastly the pulse gondola from the bowl to downtown.

Lodging would include trophy homes off the lift at the bottom of BR and in the Ski Bowl village and two large hotels modeled after Adirondack Great Camps with one at the main base and the other at the bowl connected to town via the pulse gondola.  You'd stay at the main base if you're looking for just the skiing and the bowl if looking for the resort experience.  There's no gondola from the ski bowl to the main base in my plan.

snoloco wrote

Agreed.  Snowmaking comes first.  But you also need lodging and better lifts.

There's no gondola from the ski bowl to the main base in my plan.

I tell you are a visionary thinker, but your plan needs to include my plan to make it all work:

• Extend Rt 28 to the Northway.
• Re-route Rt 28 through North Creek, tear down all the buildings west of 28 and extend the Snow Bowl trails to town. Leave the urgent care clinic and make the nursing home a ski in/ski out facility for my rapidly approaching old age.
• Build a series of dams with pumped storage electric generation on the Racquet and Moose Rivers.  Pumped storage will keep the ponds free of ice and provide a water supply for God's snow machine. Clean energy and deep snow.  It's a win-win.
• Zip line access to the Straightbrook chair for early and late season skiing.


I'm calling it the Governor Andrew Cuomo Renewable Energy Plan for Economic Progress, just because.

mm

Gonna agree with the chorus that more snowmaking needs to be priority. At the mountain today, lines are decent, but it’d be real nice to have trails like Chatiemac and Rumor open (plus the blues and blacks in the ski bowl).