The new middle

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Z Z
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The new middle

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/07/10/meet-new-independents/VnpV8WOfibCpGbLIiZ9M5O/story.html?s_campaign=todaysheadlines:newsletter

read this it really is spot on

I'm center right but very fiscally conservative and I can't stand Trump and what he is doing.  There are many center left that I'm sure are sick of what the progressive movement has done to the dems.  There is a lot of disperate ideas and viewpoints in the middle so what it is going to take is for someone to unite that so we can actual get someone to govern and not all this partisan bs that has us just going around in circles.  The media is certainly not helping as it stands they like this stand off as the traditional mass media is very progressive and the newer Fox types are to the right and they don't want something coming in the middle to ease these tensions as that is where their ratings come from.
"It is better to go skiing and think of God, than go to church and think of sport."
Artic Explorer Fridtjof Nansen
campgottagopee campgottagopee
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Re: The new middle

That was a good article and spot on imo
Darkside Shaman Darkside Shaman
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Re: The new middle

Great read Coach, the last paragraph is a perfect summation.
Ski More at Old Gore!  
campgottagopee campgottagopee
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Re: The new middle

Darkside Shaman wrote
Great read Coach, the last paragraph is a perfect summation.
Agreed:

"It’s time to pay more attention to this group. Many of them believe that the 2016 election was about voting for the lesser of two evils, between two candidates who had integrity issues. They now want leaders who are driven by a commitment to helping others rather than a commitment to party and ego. And they will support politicians who, instead of immediately trafficking in blame or criticism, are ready to work to solve our country’s problems."
MC2 5678F589 MC2 5678F589
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Re: The new middle

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Coach Z wrote
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/07/10/meet-new-independents/VnpV8WOfibCpGbLIiZ9M5O/story.html?s_campaign=todaysheadlines:newsletter

read this it really is spot on

I'm center right but very fiscally conservative and I can't stand Trump and what he is doing.  There are many center left that I'm sure are sick of what the progressive movement has done to the dems.  There is a lot of disperate ideas and viewpoints in the middle so what it is going to take is for someone to unite that so we can actual get someone to govern and not all this partisan bs that has us just going around in circles.  The media is certainly not helping as it stands they like this stand off as the traditional mass media is very progressive and the newer Fox types are to the right and they don't want something coming in the middle to ease these tensions as that is where their ratings come from.
This article is part what I've been saying for years and part complete bullshit. You would like it, Coach - it completely absolves the Republicans from Trump, even though Trump is the Republican party id incarnate. Republicans selected Trump out of 19 options, then Republicans voted him into office. He is a product of Republicans, pure and simple.

The first two examples are garbage. The Republican lady is getting everything she wants (lower taxes, lower regulations, conservative supreme Court). Her only problem with Trump is his tone and his scandal-every-day Presidency. The only reason she doesn't like that is because it will cost Republicans seats in 2018 and 2020, making it harder to achieve her goals.

If I pressed you on the issue, you'd probably say the same. I'm sure you're absolutely fine with Gorsuch, absolutely fine with Keystone XL, absolutely fine with the Muslim Ban, absolutely fine with the increased deportations, absolutely fine with ripping Medicaid from the poor to give tax cuts to the rich, etc. You don't need a new party, you just need a leader that isn't an incompetent, authoritarian dickhead who is better able to hide his racism, as Republicans in the past have done.

The "Democrat" sounds like a selfish prick that is undergoing the Dem -> GOP transition that a lot of older people do (camp comes to mind). When people start to earn more money, they start to believe that it was their own grit and fortitude that made the difference, not luck and things beyond their control, like the business cycle. That's why, since 1992, people have been voting for Democrats in times of economic strife, and Republicans when things are going well. Free college might sound terrible right now (because, to paraphrase camp, Fuck You, I paid for it, so they should too, or give me back my $25,000), but when the economy crashes again and the jobs go away, people would really appreciate the chance to learn new skills and get qualifying degrees.

I would argue that education, health care, food, and basic housing should be inalienable rights. This is something that Europe seems to have figured out, but we still think people should die or go bankrupt trying to get an education, a meal, a roof over their heads, or cancer treatment. I'd say that a lot of Democrats are with me, judging by Bernie's good showing, and the Democratic Platform that emerged. Most people who voted against Clinton didn't do so because she was too far left, but because she was too far right (business-friendly, warmongering, lucrative speeches to Goldman Sachs, not supporting $15 an hour minimum wage) and/or too corrupt (because the media focused on every email fed to them by the Russians instead of Donald Trump being a colossal buffoon).

The rest of the article is just saying what I said here:

MC2 5678F589 wrote
Studies actually show that most people aren't actually moderate, but they have a mix of left wing and right wing positions. Like, a lot of people think we should tax the rich more to pay for a social security payment increase, and silmultaneously think that we should kick all the immigrants out of the country. In polls, that person will come across as a moderate, but it's really just a guy with wildly diverging opinions.

Edit: here's a link that argues that Trump is a typical moderate (i.e. Someone with wildly diverging opinions): http://www.vox.com/2015/8/15/9159117/donald-trump-moderate
The two parties do a pretty good job of sorting people, but if you don't like your choices, I suggest that you push for ranked choice voting, instant runoff, or other reforms to the election system that will give 3rd, 4th, and 5th parties more of a fighting chance.

As far as "we need people who are trying to solve the country's problems", we first have to agree on what the problems are. We had an entire thread about that (Called: "Seriously, What Would You Like To Change"), and we couldn't come to a consensus, even among the 8-15 people who post on this board. What makes you guys think that there's any kind of consensus among 350 million people?
campgottagopee campgottagopee
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Re: The new middle

No what's bullshit is every time you don't agree with something you say it's bullshit.
Brownski Brownski
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Re: The new middle

In reply to this post by MC2 5678F589
MC2 5678F589 wrote
Coach Z wrote
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/07/10/meet-new-independents/VnpV8WOfibCpGbLIiZ9M5O/story.html?s_campaign=todaysheadlines:newsletter

read this it really is spot on

I'm center right but very fiscally conservative and I can't stand Trump and what he is doing.  There are many center left that I'm sure are sick of what the progressive movement has done to the dems.  There is a lot of disperate ideas and viewpoints in the middle so what it is going to take is for someone to unite that so we can actual get someone to govern and not all this partisan bs that has us just going around in circles.  The media is certainly not helping as it stands they like this stand off as the traditional mass media is very progressive and the newer Fox types are to the right and they don't want something coming in the middle to ease these tensions as that is where their ratings come from.
This article is part what I've been saying for years and part complete bullshit. You would like it, Coach - it completely absolves the Republicans from Trump, even though Trump is the Republican party id incarnate. Republicans selected Trump out of 19 options, then Republicans voted him into office. He is a product of Republicans, pure and simple.

The first two examples are garbage. The Republican lady is getting everything she wants (lower taxes, lower regulations, conservative supreme Court). Her only problem with Trump is his tone and his scandal-every-day Presidency. The only reason she doesn't like that is because it will cost Republicans seats in 2018 and 2020, making it harder to achieve her goals.

If I pressed you on the issue, you'd probably say the same. I'm sure you're absolutely fine with Gorsuch, absolutely fine with Keystone XL, absolutely fine with the Muslim Ban, absolutely fine with the increased deportations, absolutely fine with ripping Medicaid from the poor to give tax cuts to the rich, etc. You don't need a new party, you just need a leader that isn't an incompetent, authoritarian dickhead who is better able to hide his racism, as Republicans in the past have done.

The "Democrat" sounds like a selfish prick that is undergoing the Dem -> GOP transition that a lot of older people do (camp comes to mind). When people start to earn more money, they start to believe that it was their own grit and fortitude that made the difference, not luck and things beyond their control, like the business cycle. That's why, since 1992, people have been voting for Democrats in times of economic strife, and Republicans when things are going well. Free college might sound terrible right now (because, to paraphrase camp, Fuck You, I paid for it, so they should too, or give me back my $25,000), but when the economy crashes again and the jobs go away, people would really appreciate the chance to learn new skills and get qualifying degrees.

I would argue that education, health care, food, and basic housing should be inalienable rights. This is something that Europe seems to have figured out, but we still think people should die or go bankrupt trying to get an education, a meal, a roof over their heads, or cancer treatment. I'd say that a lot of Democrats are with me, judging by Bernie's good showing, and the Democratic Platform that emerged. Most people who voted against Clinton didn't do so because she was too far left, but because she was too far right (business-friendly, warmongering, lucrative speeches to Goldman Sachs, not supporting $15 an hour minimum wage) and/or too corrupt (because the media focused on every email fed to them by the Russians instead of Donald Trump being a colossal buffoon).

The rest of the article is just saying what I said here:

MC2 5678F589 wrote
Studies actually show that most people aren't actually moderate, but they have a mix of left wing and right wing positions. Like, a lot of people think we should tax the rich more to pay for a social security payment increase, and silmultaneously think that we should kick all the immigrants out of the country. In polls, that person will come across as a moderate, but it's really just a guy with wildly diverging opinions.

Edit: here's a link that argues that Trump is a typical moderate (i.e. Someone with wildly diverging opinions): http://www.vox.com/2015/8/15/9159117/donald-trump-moderate
Too long, dude. I'm really open to being convinced by your arguments, I swear, but you ne
The two parties do a pretty good job of sorting people, but if you don't like your choices, I suggest that you push for ranked choice voting, instant runoff, or other reforms to the election system that will give 3rd, 4th, and 5th parties more of a fighting chance.

As far as "we need people who are trying to solve the country's problems", we first have to agree on what the problems are. We had an entire thread about that (Called: "Seriously, What Would You Like To Change"), and we couldn't come to a consensus, even among the 8-15 people who post on this board. What makes you guys think that there's any kind of consensus among 350 million people?
Too long
ScottyJack ScottyJack
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Re: The new middle

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I cant believe you read the whole thing...  too long
I ride with Crazy Horse!
campgottagopee campgottagopee
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Re: The new middle

I'm not surprised
MC2 5678F589 MC2 5678F589
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