Today's Paddle

Sick Bird Rider wrote

I spent yesterday afternoon with this sexy thing. Still paying for it. More later:

I’m intrigued.

Brownski wrote

I’m intrigued.

So here is the short version. Some of you may know that I help run a canoe trip outfitting business in Algonquin Park, up here in the Hinterlands. As in any business, sometimes things things fall through the cracks and you have to make it right. In this case, a customer had booked one our top packages, with all the trimmings, and received a tent that had a four-person body and three-person fly. Not good. I had a relationship with the customer, through email and phone, and for various various reasons there had been a few hiccups in his reservation. We have a program called "guide for a day," where a guide goes with them for the first day of trip, gets them situated on a campsite, then buggers off. This client booked that option. The guide reported the tent issue and I decided that it would be a fine mission to bring him a new, and functional, tent.

Related to our business is Swift Canoe, and I cajoled the owner into letting me use a speedy new demo for the trip. The canoe is a new Swift 16' 8" solo Cruiser, in full carbon construction, set up with a "pack canoe" seat for use with a double bladed paddle. You have all the advantages of a lightweight solo canoe, like gear carrying and ability to portage, with the paddling efficiency of a kayak. This is not a new concept, in fact other members like Harvey and Darkside have their own versions of a similar vessel.

Anyhoo, I had to drive to the start point, paddle fast for about an hour, portage the canoe and gear over a 2800 metre (over 3000 yards) uphill-ish trail, paddle another 20 minutes (in a headwind) to the campsite, schmooze with the client, set up the tent, and return. Big day for a 60 year old desk guy. But fun.

Brownski wrote

Sick Bird Rider wrote

I spent yesterday afternoon with this sexy thing. Still paying for it. More later:

I’m intrigued.

I meant to ask more about that canoe, sbr. Looks like a lot of tumble home to me. I assume that adds to its speed. Does it make it super tippy as well?
Very cool story by the way. Little adventures like that will keep you young.

gorgonzola wrote

first paddle of the season

My big turtle story is on the blog now if anybody’s interested

https://nyskiblog.com/alligator-snapping-turtle-in-ny/

Brownski wrote

I meant to ask more about that canoe, sbr. Looks like a lot of tumble home to me. I assume that adds to its speed. Does it make it super tippy as well?
Very cool story by the way. Little adventures like that will keep you young.

Tumblehome won't really add any speed - it's just done to keep the overall with of the canoe lesser at the cockpit whilst keeping a large volume.  If one were to let that volume flare out at the top, it would be very hard to paddle the canoe from the mid section, as one does with a solo canoe.

It also typically makes them quite stable when leaned.  Just try to imagine the boat being more buoyant the bigger volume, so those bulges make it quite stiff when you try to submerge them.  It actually helps because turning a solo canoe rapidly often involves leaning the boat over.

Ah, thanks
 I guess I misunderstood. I used to have a nice little fiberglass solo that, like you said, I could bend right over to make tight turns. The secondary stability was great. Initial stability was really good too. I always assumed paddling something with lots of tumble home was more difficult

Brownski wrote

Ah, thanks
 I guess I misunderstood. I used to have a nice little fiberglass solo that, like you said, I could bend right over to make tight turns. The secondary stability was great. Initial stability was really good too. I always assumed paddling something with lots of tumble home was more difficult

Yeah, you got it.

Initially stability generally comes from the bottom shape and secondary from the side shape.

I guess it depends on how much tumblehome.  A lot of designs it's about the same width as the outside gunwale, so it doesn't really cause any issue.

Cunningstunts wrote

Brownski wrote

Ah, thanks
 I guess I misunderstood. I used to have a nice little fiberglass solo that, like you said, I could bend right over to make tight turns. The secondary stability was great. Initial stability was really good too. I always assumed paddling something with lots of tumble home was more difficult

Yeah, you got it.

Initially stability generally comes from the bottom shape and secondary from the side shape.

I guess it depends on how much tumblehome.  A lot of designs it's about the same width as the outside gunwale, so it doesn't really cause any issue.

Brownski, sorry I missed your question regarding canoe shape. Stunts has filled in admirably and is absolutely correct. This particular canoe was designed by David Yost, an upstate New Yorker who is well-known for his use of tumblehome. In canoe nerd circles at least, there is a design feature called the "Yost bubble," which the canoe is the picture does have.  Yost has figured out how to combine fairly radical tumblehome amidships with a certain amount of flare at the bow (for wave shedding). But as Stunts pointed out, it is mostly used in solo boats to make paddling easier from the centre position.

Just to illustrate the concept, here are a couple of other Yost designs from the late 80s, built by Sawyer Canoe back then.

The Summersong, a beautiful boat I would still buy if I had the chance:



The Shock Wave, a very, very fast and stable race/tripping canoe from those days. The inspiration for the Cruiser 16-8 shown in my post (note the cool little curve at the stern that is present on both designs):

Thanks for the details. It certainly makes for a cool looking boat

Ready for fall.

Sick Bird Rider wrote

Brownski, sorry I missed your question regarding canoe shape. Stunts has filled in admirably and is absolutely correct. This particular canoe was designed by David Yost, an upstate New Yorker who is well-known for his use of tumblehome. In canoe nerd circles at least, there is a design feature called the "Yost bubble," which the canoe is the picture does have.  Yost has figured out how to combine fairly radical tumblehome amidships with a certain amount of flare at the bow (for wave shedding). But as Stunts pointed out, it is mostly used in solo boats to make paddling easier from the centre position.

I know DY.  He lives right down on the north end of Canadice lake.

I haven't seen him in a while though, but probably my fault as I haven't been attending Hemlock demo nights.

Cunningstunts wrote

I know DY.  He lives right down on the north end of Canadice lake.

I haven't seen him in a while though, but probably my fault as I haven't been attending Hemlock demo nights.

That's cool. I see him once in while when he comes up to visit the folks at Swift Canoe in Canada. I work for the "brother company" that rents our what Swift makes, which these days, are mostly DY designs.

You should check out a Swift demo, paddle a fast Cruiser.

I had a Swift but I sold it.  It was a fine boat but I wanted a symmetrical midsize tandem with similar features to what I had (a Keewaydin).  I bought an Eagle.  I also have a Peregrine and an old Sawyer x17 tandem.

15, 16 and 17'.  All Kevlar.

Pack-rafts rock...

Ya, I know its the middle of ski season, and nothing else matters... but I’m stoked about my soon to be new water fun toy..  


It’s  getting delivered to me early April..
FKNA!  

That is all.  Please return to your regularily broadcast snow..

That is a stoke-worthy ride right there. Looks fast as hellll!!

Brownski wrote

That is a stoke-worthy ride right there. Looks fast as hellll!!

Brownski, those Epics are FAST. In our local endurance paddling event, the MRX, one regular competitor in an Epic 18 typically places in the top 5 overall in the 130 km race. He would likely smoke the tandem canoers paddling with bent shaft paddles in fast canoes if it wasn't for the portages.

But TD, this is really going to the dark side.

I know, I know:

Had to look up the Epic 18, its a kayak, not a ski.
I’m getting the V10 SurfSki
https://www.epickayaks.com/v10

I’m into the surfski side of things after being immersed in the culture in Australia.  Skis are basically stupid fast and seaworthy sit-upons..  no sitting in with a skirt and having to learn to roll etc.  They’re designed for open water paddling sessions.  The rougher it is, the more fun they are.
I can’t wait.   Oh, and BTW, it will complement my SUPing.   So not entirely dark side.  

Telemark Dave wrote

I can’t wait.   Oh, and BTW, it will complement my SUPing.   So not entirely dark side.

Hmm. I see this taking over your life. You might as well just give me your SUP and be done with it.