All Around Mid Fat Full Suspension MTB

I haven't lost interest. I'm having a hard time understand all the abbreviations/slang and I am also really jammed up at work.

I will read it all.

Question: what is the up side and down side of a fat bike, and then a midfat?  What to fat tires give you?  Why are they a fad?

I'd like to check out those YT bikes.  

I wanted to buy a bike from my great local shop, they have been super cool. But that is only Giant and Specialized, I think.

I can’t say for sure but I imagine Harv is going to use it more for pedal rides.

Harvey wrote

I haven't lost interest. I'm having a hard time understand all the abbreviations/slang and I am also really jammed up at work.

I will read it all.

Question: what is the up side and down side of a fat bike, and then a midfat?  What to fat tires give you?  Why are they a fad?

I'd like to check out those YT bikes.  

I wanted to buy a bike from my great local shop, they have been super cool. But that is only Giant and Specialized, I think.

A fat bike doesn't really have any advantage unless perhaps you ride in snow or deep sand.  Even then they seem to be limited to groomed trails.  I rode a regular XC mountain bike during the winter in low snow depths for years before fat bikes were even conceived.  They just give you a lot more grip.  If you've ever ridden one you would see what I mean about the bouncing.  To me they feel sluggish, bouncy and disconnected from the trail.  I guess some people like that.  Think of it like trying to carve cord with big mountain powder skis.

Mid-fats or 27.5+ or 29+ (yes, there are both) are in between conventional mountain bike tires sizes and fat bike tires (all fat bikes that I know of are 26" fwiw).  They give you some advantages of having more grip for climbing and more cushioning in the tire, but that becomes a moot point if you have a real suspension system.  Plus tires seem to be more popular for taking some sting out of hard tail (no rear suspension) bikes.  Because the tires are big and heavy, tire manufacturers try to thin them out to save weight.  This means the sidewalls aren't as robust, usually, and they roll off the rim easier if you corner hard - not a good thing at 30 mph!!!  As I mentioned in the other post, they don't have the aggressive DH patterns that you can get in regular sizes because no one races them.  For instance, a Maxxis Minion is a super popular high grip tire available in Trail and DH casings, but I don't think you can get them in plus sizes.

Just another reference:

Fat tires - 26" rim, close to 29" rolling diameter, 4-5" wide.

Plus tires - 650B (27.5) or 700C (29) rim, 27.5+ has close to a 29" rolling diameter, 2.8-3.5" wide.

Conventional TIres - 650B (27.5) or 700C (29) rim, 27.5" or 29" rolling diameter, 2.0-2.6" wide.


The last thing is I really wouldn't limit myself to one local bike shop.  There are too many brands of bikes out there and no one shop can carry them all.  Some are only available through bike shops, of which you can find almost any brand in NY state, others are only available through internet purchases, and some are available both ways.  I'd really do my HW there and figure out what you want to do.  Me, I buy about 50/50 from bike shop and internet.  It's not practical to buy anything from just one or the other.  As far as suspension and drivetrain service, any competent bike shop you choose will be able to service that stuff as it will most likely be from one of two or three big brands.  I'd suggest using your shop for that stuff and buy the bike you want and can afford.

Also, just one other thing.  Bikes are a little like skis these days in that they've gotten a lot better than they were 20 years ago and up to a point you really get what you pay for.  If you've been riding a cheapo hardtail bike and you just to a 2500 full squish bike, it's going to be a big upgrade no matter what.  You'll probably want to ride a lot more and you'll probably ride a lot harder.  Or at I least I hope, or else I just typed a bunch of shit for nothing...

Cunningstunts wrote

A fat bike doesn't really have any advantage unless perhaps you ride in snow or deep sand.  Even then they seem to be limited to groomed trails.  I rode a regular XC mountain bike during the winter in low snow depths for years before fat bikes were even conceived.  They just give you a lot more grip.  If you've ever ridden one you would see what I mean about the bouncing.  To me they feel sluggish, bouncy and disconnected from the trail.  I guess some people like that.  Think of it like trying to carve cord with big mountain powder skis.

Mid-fats or 27.5+ or 29+ (yes, there are both) are in between conventional mountain bike tires sizes and fat bike tires (all fat bikes that I know of are 26" fwiw).  They give you some advantages of having more grip for climbing and more cushioning in the tire, but that becomes a moot point if you have a real suspension system.  Plus tires seem to be more popular for taking some sting out of hard tail (no rear suspension) bikes.  Because the tires are big and heavy, tire manufacturers try to thin them out to save weight.  This means the sidewalls aren't as robust, usually, and they roll off the rim easier if you corner hard - not a good thing at 30 mph!!!  As I mentioned in the other post, they don't have the aggressive DH patterns that you can get in regular sizes because no one races them.  For instance, a Maxxis Minion is a super popular high grip tire available in Trail and DH casings, but I don't think you can get them in plus sizes.

Just another reference:

Fat tires - 26" rim, close to 29" rolling diameter, 4-5" wide.

Plus tires - 650B (27.5) or 700C (29) rim, 27.5+ has close to a 29" rolling diameter, 2.8-3.5" wide.

Conventional TIres - 650B (27.5) or 700C (29) rim, 27.5" or 29" rolling diameter, 2.0-2.6" wide.

The last thing is I really wouldn't limit myself to one local bike shop.  There are too many brands of bikes out there and no one shop can carry them all.  Some are only available through bike shops, of which you can find almost any brand in NY state, others are only available through internet purchases, and some are available both ways.  I'd really do my HW there and figure out what you want to do.  Me, I buy about 50/50 from bike shop and internet.  It's not practical to buy anything from just one or the other.  As far as suspension and drivetrain service, any competent bike shop you choose will be able to service that stuff as it will most likely be from one of two or three big brands.  I'd suggest using your shop for that stuff and buy the bike you want and can afford.

Also, just one other thing.  Bikes are a little like skis these days in that they've gotten a lot better than they were 20 years ago and up to a point you really get what you pay for.  If you've been riding a cheapo hardtail bike and you just to a 2500 full squish bike, it's going to be a big upgrade no matter what.  You'll probably want to ride a lot more and you'll probably ride a lot harder.  Or at I least I hope, or else I just typed a bunch of shit for nothing...

Super helpful thank you.

I like my hardtail. It's weird but our trails (we have about 2 miles) are nicely planned out and stay pretty dry, but they haven't been flowed out or whatever. They have roots in them and some rocks.  I do this weird thing were I move ahead in my lowest gear at walking speed in front of or behind my wife who is walking.  Trying to balance without putting a foot down.  I rarely use anything beyond the lowest two gears.

Sometime when I ride on my own I zoom down our hills, but just coasting, still in first.  In a way it makes our short trail network feel longer than if the whole thing was groomed or flowed out. (What ever you call it.)

Sounds like a FS will be a whole new world. I think the increased capability will have me riding at the North Creek Ski Bowl more. Those trails are sweet IMO. Who's ridden them?

Would also like to hear your reco if I go to 3500 from 2500.  Ricky may have some splainin to do.

Since you mentioned it Cunningstunts I kept rolling my tires off the wheel, burping em in every fun corner. I got real sick of it and went to tubes, then I kept flatting my tubes. I was going through 3 a ride. Last week I finally got fed up and upgraded my butcher grids to the black diamonds. Those thin sidewalls are completely useless. That little experiment was extremely irritating.

Cunning great information!!!

I have owned 29er's ,27.5 and 27.5+...The 27.5 + is my favorite. I'm using the Maxxis Recon 2.8...The riding we do is mostly extreme rocks and roots..

The Maxxis Minion is great , but that tire is heavy..

Specialized and giant will both have good bikes. I wouldn't worry so much about the brand they both use the same components.  

Harvey,

If you are stuck on Giant or Spec, here's my recs, and yes, you'll need to increase your budget a bit.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/trance-2-2019

This bike doesn't have as good comps as the YT I linked, but they are all good, mid-level stuff.  This bike is definitely capable of Mtn Creek and North Creek.


Here's a comparable spec:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/stumpjumper-comp-alloy-27-5/p/153985?color=240026-153985



If you like 29" wheels and you don't really plan on much, or if any, bike park stuff.  I'd look at Trail 29ers with around 120mm of travel.


If you want to spend more money, and want to stick with more XC type stuff, this would be my recommendation:

https://www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes_2018_VanquishGX.cfm

This is the bike I use as my XC daily driver.  I built mine from frame up, but their build is pretty good.  This bike is far, far less forgiving than any of the others, and I don't take it to any bike parks (although it is tough enough).  It's just a fun single track rocket with less shit to mess around with.

My choice for a $3500 FS bike would likely be this:

https://ridegg.com/trailpistol-ride-2


Good luck.  There really aren't many bad bikes out there as long as it fits you.

And more seriously, here's some insider info from someone in the biz on how all this stuff works:

raisingarizona wrote

Since you mentioned it Cunningstunts I kept rolling my tires off the wheel, burping em in every fun corner. I got real sick of it and went to tubes, then I kept flatting my tubes. I was going through 3 a ride. Last week I finally got fed up and upgraded my butcher grids to the black diamonds. Those thin sidewalls are completely useless. That little experiment was extremely irritating.

Might be the bead clincher on your rims too.  Some are better than others.

Also are you sure those tires had a tubeless bead?  They are different you know.

JasonWx wrote

Cunning great information!!!

I have owned 29er's ,27.5 and 27.5+...The 27.5 + is my favorite. I'm using the Maxxis Recon 2.8...The riding we do is mostly extreme rocks and roots..

The Maxxis Minion is great , but that tire is heavy..

Glad you found what you like.  I might try Rekons on my carbon HT for my next tires.

As far as the MInions, there are so many different ones you have to be careful about saying they are heavy.  Yeah, the double down or the DH casings are, but just the 2.3 Exo are pretty decent and can make an excellent trail tire in the right conditions.

Lot's of nice bikes and and good info here!
A few years back I sent my 29'er fork out for service and my LBS lent me the same bike in a 27.5 for a few weeks. I was a little hesitant as I was afraid I was going to love it and be bummed going back to the 9'er. The bottom line was it was close to being a wash for me: the 27.5 was a little better in the tight and twisty, the 9'er rolls cleaner through the tech stuff. Climbing and cornering felt pretty equal, I felt like I could hold more momentum through roller sections with the 9'er. At 6' I feel the 9'er fit MY frame a little better and will likely stay with it.
I haven;t ridden plus but don't see any advantage for my riding style and terrain at this point in the game, although i could see some advantages for a newer rider.

You ever take a plus size lady for a ride.  They can be fun for a night but not for a daily driver.  Bad joke but I laughed

 I stand by my last statement above!

I’m lusting for one of these lately.

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-pivots-new-firebird-29.html

Back in June I test rode a specialized stumpjumper. Aluminum frame 29er.   Holy chit it changed my attitude 1/3 of the way up Ante Up and the deal was sealed after the descent down all in.

I was on my old yeti 575 with 26 inch wheels so it was a huge difference but i decided based on that ride to go with 29ers on my solace.  Cut out the middle man....

Tried 29ers about 5 years ago and thought they sucked.  Wagon wheels sluggishly through tight switch backs was not my thing

However geometry has def evolved and i am stoked on the 29er.  Mid fat

The stumpjumper has specialized 2.6 tires which I’m told actually meaure closer to 2.4.  I like them


On my Solace I ridding the terrene mcfly 2.8 tubeless. The sidewall is tough and I love this tire and width.  The solace is a Titanium hardtail so the extra width and less psi does help to cushion banging.  

Im pretty much riding the Solace all the time.  It descends way better than I was anticipating for a hardtail.  And it climbs like a billy goat.  However its in the 4500-6000 range depending on your build

However that stumpjumper is one hell of a bike espically for the price.
For under 3500 you are hooked with fox suspension 150/150 and XT components plus a high end thompson dropper post.  Killer deal bro!  
 

raisingarizona wrote

I’m lusting for one of these lately.

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-pivots-new-firebird-29.html

That is one sexy bike!!!
A bit too slack for my local eastern riding, but i wouldn't throw it out of bed..

JasonWx wrote

raisingarizona wrote

I’m lusting for one of these lately.

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-pivots-new-firebird-29.html

That is one sexy bike!!!
A bit too slack for my local eastern riding, but i wouldn't throw it out of bed..

That slackness might act a bit different that you think being a 44mm fork offset bike.  In theory it should ride more like a less slack bike with a shorter wheelbase but have the attack angles of a slack bike.

The jury is still out on whether this new short fork offset is ideal, but a lot of manufacturers are going that way.  I think Transition actually started it last year as they claim to have been the first to contact fork manufacturers about making different fork crown offsets for mountain bikes.

https://vimeo.com/278343295

Also I forgot to add this bike as it seems to fit the budget as it is on sale now if you fit a medium frame:

https://www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes_2018_SmugglerAlloyGX.cfm

Cunningstunts wrote

JasonWx wrote

raisingarizona wrote

I’m lusting for one of these lately.

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-pivots-new-firebird-29.html

That is one sexy bike!!!
A bit too slack for my local eastern riding, but i wouldn't throw it out of bed..

That slackness might act a bit different that you think being a 44mm fork offset bike.  In theory it should ride more like a less slack bike with a shorter wheelbase but have the attack angles of a slack bike.

The jury is still out on whether this new short fork offset is ideal, but a lot of manufacturers are going that way.  I think Transition actually started it last year as they claim to have been the first to contact fork manufacturers about making different fork crown offsets for mountain bikes.

https://vimeo.com/278343295

Also I forgot to add this bike as it seems to fit the budget as it is on sale now if you fit a medium frame:

https://www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes_2018_SmugglerAlloyGX.cfm

very true..I also should have looked at the seatpost angle too..

The guys at Worldwide Cyclery are riding transitions now

There is a fantastic amount of excellent and informed information in this thread. For the average rider, unfamiliar with seat post angles and other such minutiae of bike lore, it is all a bit much. Harv, try to digest as much of this as you can but really, get out there and ride some bikes. Seek out demo days. Take notes if you have to. Find out what feels right for you, in both a general and specific sense. Narrow it down to a few choices. Maybe buy a bike.