I Couldn't Believe It, And I Still Don't

When my daughter and I were at Belleayre, we were going down one of the steeper, bumped up runs and there was a dad and his daughter, young, maybe six or so and it just looked like the run was too far above her ability and wasn't even fun.  She was really struggling and my paternal instinct was to stop and help, but her dad was reasonably close to her and I didn't want to interfere.  We skied the rest of the way down and at the base, I could hear the wailing!  Clearly, the experiment was failing.  I don't know why the dad would take the chance to ruin the kid's experience and maybe not want to ski anymore. :(  Maybe the child insisted that she wanted to do the run, but that's why we get experience as parents....to over-rule, teach and protect.  Next time, I'm stopping to help, even if the mom or dad is right there.  

x10003q wrote

Hero Shot.

lolkl wrote

I'm pretty sure that was Snoloco.

I thought sno was a boarder, must be PA.

'Loco skis. He has talked about his new Elans on this forum, probably more than we wanted to hear.

YUKON CORNELIUS wrote

x10003q wrote

Hero Shot.

Nicely done, Harv. It could have been much worse had you not been there. Goodness knows how often this happens everyday and someone probably isn't there. Who knows about the dad... maybe be was upset he couldn't or didn't know how to help his son or he was upset at you being the hero because he made the mistake of already being at the bottom of the hill. Probably was embarrassed. Still weird he would speed off again without the kid, though. But focus on the good deed done my friend, you got that kid down and saved the day, well done.

Thanks River (and all). I like the fact that you're allowing for the possibility that there may be another explanation.  Didn't seem like it at the time, but I was hardly fully conscious while this was going on.

Also I don't buy Benny's idea that this somehow has something to do with being at Windham.

This was not a hard thing to do, about as much effort as bending over to tie your shoe. I had a strong reaction to it I think because it was at the end of a long emotional day. Weekend really.

Coach Z wrote

#1 mistake I see parents making is taking their kids on too steep terrain

If it makes them make a bigger wedge it' is too steep for them.  Doing this can long term stunt their skiing development.  With my own son I was super patient in slowly ramping up terrain.  Not until he could make good parallel turns on steeper blues did he get on a black.  And then it was a slow progression to WF's steeper trails making sure there was no regression before moving ahead. Ultimately that makes for a kid not afraid of pitch with a balanced stance.

Dug up this old blog post I wrote about this

http://nyskiblog.com/coach-z-ski-vacations-with-kids/

First of all, yea Harv. You rock.

But, as far as pushing kids, I've been watching the results  and show from a program here in Summit County, Co., called Team Summit, which is a pretty well organized youth training program that exists all seasons and has a very competitive edge. Sunday morning they made their presence known at ABasin with 4 inches of dust on crust, and I watched tiny little kids coming down a the rocky lift line of Pali with squeals of excitement. Quite a sight. The hell if Benny wanted to go down that. Later I watched some just a little older kids make turns that were real impressive. So, I don't know what I'm trying to say, but, maybe, create a competitive training environment and let the winners fight among themselves. With good coaches.

I think there is a difference between pushing kids and not giving them the support they need, pushing them far beyond their limits, and making them feel abandoned. It is possible this dude was giving tough love thinking he was doing his kid a favor. But given Harv's report on the kid crying for dad to wait up and not leave him behind... it sounds like a lot of harm is being done, both for the relationship and for the joy of skiing.

MRG has incredible kids programs, they take those kids all over the mountain. Kids at MRG in their programs are skiing stuff in single digit ages that I didn't start skiing until 10 years ago. But no one is pushing those kids beyond their abilities. If a kid doesn't know how to get back up on a steep pitch and side slip down, they were brought down terrain way too advanced for their abilities, that isn't going to help a skier develop at all.

I have seen a few of these scenes at Gore.  Saw a kid get stuck on Rumor earlier this season... kid was advanced pizza french fry and had no reason to be up there.  Parent had to drag them off the run.  Kid could have been badly hurt or killed.  I spent a holiday week at Stratton a few years ago... what parents did there to kids really blew me away.  So many kids still in a wedge going down terrain they could not handle.  They would make it halfway down and either go flying into the woods or go ballistic and hope they don't take someone out.  If I ever had kids I'm just going to drop them into a program and let them go.  They can ski with people their age and their ability while improving... and I can go do whatever the hell I want.  Catch up in the afternoon and go from there.  

Second post on this one...

This can also happen on the other side of the age line.  About 3 weeks ago or so we were up at Gore riding the HP chair.  As we came over pit there was a guy who was down on skiers right in the woods, skis in the air.  There was another guy who was just standing on the top of the run just standing there watching.  I recognized both as regular midweekers.  We went past and unloaded.  I was heading towards Darby so I headed to pit.  I was surprised to see the guy at the top of the run still standing there... and the guy in the woods still skis in the air.  I asked the guy at the top of the run if he needed help and go the response "I guess, I don't know".  I edged down to him.  Guy was struggling to get his skis off.  80+ club member with a new hip he didn't want to destroy.  I helped him pop his skis and pull him out of the woods and got him settled to clip back in.  The entire time his partner was just standing at the top of the run.  If the guy could not help him all he had to do was ask anyone on the lift to call patrol... they would have been there in 2 minutes.  Instead, he just let his friend flop around.

   

Yep, no shortage of a-holes in our world.

Thanks for helping the guy out.

Footer wrote

 If I ever had kids I'm just going to drop them into a program and let them go.  They can ski with people their age and their ability while improving... and I can go do whatever the hell I want.  Catch up in the afternoon and go from there.

Don't forget about line cuts either.  That's a huge benefit as well.

Footer wrote

Second post on this one...

This can also happen on the other side of the age line.  About 3 weeks ago or so we were up at Gore riding the HP chair.  As we came over pit there was a guy who was down on skiers right in the woods, skis in the air.  There was another guy who was just standing on the top of the run just standing there watching.  I recognized both as regular midweekers.  We went past and unloaded.  I was heading towards Darby so I headed to pit.  I was surprised to see the guy at the top of the run still standing there... and the guy in the woods still skis in the air.  I asked the guy at the top of the run if he needed help and go the response "I guess, I don't know".  I edged down to him.  Guy was struggling to get his skis off.  80+ club member with a new hip he didn't want to destroy.  I helped him pop his skis and pull him out of the woods and got him settled to clip back in.  The entire time his partner was just standing at the top of the run.  If the guy could not help him all he had to do was ask anyone on the lift to call patrol... they would have been there in 2 minutes.  Instead, he just let his friend flop around.

With friends like that, who needs enemies?! :(  Always stopping to help or give advice on what is skiing better or how to get from here to there when it looks like someone is lost.  Embarrasses my daughter to no end, but I love to help others enjoy it as much as I do!

Totally agree with the discussion that season long programs and having someone else coach your kid is great for thier development in skiing.  

My son did season passes for the play and ski program thru age 5 then 2 years in Cloudsplitter Club where I coached him and is his 4 th year of Nysef which totally rocks for developing fast and fundamentally sound skiers.

Now it's more likely he will drag me into something over my head than the other way around.

On the other hand many people may not be able to afford doing that so they need to be the adult in the room and responsibly ski with thier kids.  I hate seeing the dad dragging his huge pizza wedge kid down Mt Run

  My ten year old so just finished up a season long program at Elk mountain. He loved it ,improved drastically and made friends.  They hammered the bumps in all conditions ,drilled on some basics and practiced side slips and skied on one ski. Skiing bumps all season  helped in all aspects of his skiing. He used to shy away from cut up ungroomed terrain wherever we skied, now he seeks it out!

Lot's of posts I didn't read, but this happened with me and my two sons last week end at the Middlebury Snow Bowl.

An easy run from the top, the twelve year old in the lead - 6 years on skis, the eight year old second - third year on skis - solid power wedge going - me sweeper.  The eight year skis kind of close up slope on a steeper section of this easy trail from a very little guy - looked to be 3 or 4 years old with parents - so he drops on his butt to do a quick stop.  Gets his ski tangled up and is floundering around trying to get up within 6 to 10 feet of the stopped parents.

They ignore my kid while he is floundering and start to ski away.  I was in disbelief.  I have helped so many little people pick them selves up over the years, especially since skiing with my little guys since I spend a lot of time on blues and greens.

people are assholes at work, in the car, and at the slopes

Just in this vein, but off the slopes . . . I was driving home from the train station the other night, probably around 9:30.  I turn onto the on-ramp for Route 9, and I see a little girl, maybe 5 or 6, standing in the dark on a strip of grass between the on-ramp and a building.  She's holding a doll of some kind by the hand, dangling by her side.  She is just standing there, watching cars go by.  There is nothing on the other side of the on-ramp except the elevated highway.

I pull over about 20 feet beyond her, somewhat in unbelief -- I am thinking, "Is this a setup?"  I think even for a moment I thought it was a prank.  But I turn on my hazards and get out of the car.  I figured it would be better if I called to her rather than go over -- a 46 year old man approaching a little girl alone on the side of the highway could be misinterpreted.  

"Little girl!  Are you all right?"  Corny, right?  But what else am I supposed to say.

All of a sudden I see a movement in the wood behind the building, and I think again this is a setup.  But a young woman around 17 or 18 comes out, and I see a guy heading off in the other direction.  She calls for the girl, who bolts.  I yell again, this time asking the woman if the girl is all right.  She says yes, and chases after the girl.

I shake my head, get in the car and go home.   I guess the woman was getting some drugs or maybe performing services behind the building.

Petronio

I've witnessed similar things at Hunter. I've only been to windham once. You definitely did the right thing.  I congratulate you! Most people would ski right. On by. I've honestly never experienced anything like this at Platty, and I ski there all the time. I was recently riding the chairlift at Hunter with someone who was talking to his wife on his cell phone, and complaining in a very argumentative way that she was skiing too slow, and that he was ahead on the chairlift. It was the end of the day, and we caught one of the last chairs. I didn't hear Her end, but I heard him say "what! What do you mean the lift is closed, tell the operator to let you on—what? He won't let you on!? Well, give him a 20, and tell him it's an emergency. And your kid is up there waiting for you. (I have no idea if they even had a kid, probably not)I'm dumbfounded by some of the behavior I see at Hunter, and I imagine the same applies at Windham.