Is the Magic (VT) model good for other ski areas?

While I agree a bigger concern should be on selling tickets, I don't believe limiting them has been tried in conjunction with a membership model.

ml242 wrote

The whole "we limit ticket sales on peak days" thing has been tried by many mountains in the northeast, all of which have failed. I'm sure they thought having "limited ticket sales" would be a good problem to have, too, but they should have been more concerned about SELLING TICKETS, not limiting them.

soulskier wrote

While I agree a bigger concern should be on selling tickets, I don't believe limiting them has been tried in conjunction with a membership model.

ml242 wrote

The whole "we limit ticket sales on peak days" thing has been tried by many mountains in the northeast, all of which have failed. I'm sure they thought having "limited ticket sales" would be a good problem to have, too, but they should have been more concerned about SELLING TICKETS, not limiting them.

If I were to bump into that situation I would be more inclined to never come back than persuing a membership

soulskier wrote

While I agree a bigger concern should be on selling tickets, I don't believe limiting them has been tried in conjunction with a membership model.

bear creek / roundtop?
Ascutney?
Original Windham?

just off the top of the head there.

So those three ski areas tried a membership model and limited ticket sales on peak days? If so, thank you for that tidbit.

soulskier wrote

So those three ski areas tried a membership model and limited ticket sales on peak days? If so, thank you for that tidbit.

Bear Creek went lost on their membership model. More country club, not a coop. Haystack has had trouble getting off the ground with their membership model. Membership ski areas don't have a very good track record of success and the elitism of restricting ticket sales certainly doesn't speak to the inclusivity of today's ski coops (at least in the east). As previously suggested, limiting ticket sales would be a sure fire way to alienate potential owners and guests. I'd never ski an area that turned me away at the door and I sure wouldn't buy a share or membership either.

riverc0il wrote

soulskier wrote

So those three ski areas tried a membership model and limited ticket sales on peak days? If so, thank you for that tidbit.

Bear Creek went lost on their membership model. More country club, not a coop. Haystack has had trouble getting off the ground with their membership model. Membership ski areas don't have a very good track record of success and the elitism of restricting ticket sales certainly doesn't speak to the inclusivity of today's ski coops (at least in the east). As previously suggested, limiting ticket sales would be a sure fire way to alienate potential owners and guests. I'd never ski an area that turned me away at the door and I sure wouldn't buy a share or membership either.

Consider looking at it another way. If you are a member of an area, you will never have to wait in a long line. Your ski experience will not be diminish by a corporate mentality of hearding in the masses.



Here is a day last year at Squaw Valley. Passes used to be over $1,000/season. Now they start around $400 and include two mountains.

I personally would rather pay more and/or be a member and have privileges. I don't believe that's being elitist, but rather selecting a more positive and different type of ski experience.

There are definitely ski areas with more expensive season passes with shorter lines. Telluride is very self limiting in that way. Few beds, parking, tons of dough for tickets.

soulskier wrote

If you're standing at the end of a line like that more than twice a day at any area, you're doing it wrong.

I skied Killington three Saturdays this year, and I never had to wait too long. But I sure saw a lot of other people herding like cattle.

how come western ski areas have been offering season passes at very respectable rates which often include other mountains and eastern areas keep raising rates? Gore is up again. So is killington. the price is high enough that it makes me stop and think if i will get a pass next year. it shouldn't be this way. with the possibility of shorter ski seasons due to warm weather, the last thing you want to do is to price out customers. go volume with lower prices for pass holders and walk-up ticket buyers paying top dollar.

Hidden Valley in NJ used to limit ticket sales on weekends and holidays only.

Season pass prices go up because they are getting the response that they want. It is what the market will bear. Gore and ORDA seem to be quite content with around 200,000 visits for Gore despite the vast underutilzation of the mountain. The main limiting factor is the parking.

There is no need to limit tickets - just limit parking.

frk wrote

how come western ski areas have been offering season passes at very respectable rates which often include other mountains and eastern areas keep raising rates? Gore is up again. So is killington. the price is high enough that it makes me stop and think if i will get a pass next year. it shouldn't be this way. with the possibility of shorter ski seasons due to warm weather, the last thing you want to do is to price out customers. go volume with lower prices for pass holders and walk-up ticket buyers paying top dollar.

I feel your pain, for real. This is just a guess, but ... eastern ski tix are more expensive because of snowmaking?  I know western passes are cheaper - how do day tix compare? Unfortunately years like this one are probably even more expensive, so it really hammers the ROI.  If (god forbid) you string a bunch of seasons like this one together, in a row, Benny's shakeup could come sooner rather than later.

I haven't looked at Gore's price for next year. With a six-year old, I need three passes - I'm scared to look.

It all started with the ASC vs Vail Corp vs Intrawest competition for the market back in the 90s. The business model for all was based on real estate development, with Otten's ASC taking it to extremes by selling one gigantic time share at mountains all over the place. We all know how that turned out. But Vail still believes in cheap ticket pricing, for some reason, and they just changed the game in Tahoe with Kirkwood. Now you don't have to ski Tahoe a la carte, either season or day pass, and I think that's pretty cool. Has opened my eyes to actually living there. I agree, I still don't understand why there hasn't been some consolidation in the East - hell, right before Otten bought Killington, they were teamed up with Sugarbush on one ticket. That was very cool. What do you have today? The two lamest S. Vermont mountains together, Stratton and Okemo. We need more choices than that. But, as somebody said above, the market seemed to be pretty good at Killington this winter. They don't need any more customers on Saturday, that's for sure.

Here was KT-22's lift line this morning, March 17.

I don't get it. What does that prove besides Squaw skiers are sheep? Was Donner ski ranch crowded today?



For example, here is hunter's west side detachable quad this week: (hunter is regarded as a crowded EC mountain)



here is the northeasts most popular above treeline destination.... with just the group of us:



Fuje at Plattekill today with cheap+free tickets, no one on the chair to observe this:



the moral of the story is those people at Squaw are insane in the membrane for waiting in that line, right?

Big line up for a weekend powder day.

What the hell is your point?

Smaller coops areas are better than big corporate areas? You should ski MRG on a powder day...

soulskier wrote

Here was KT-22's lift line this morning, March 17.

My point is that we believe many will buy a membership to one of our mountain playgrounds knowing they will never wait in a long line, where their ski experience is diminished.

soulskier wrote

My point is that we believe many will buy a membership to one of our mountain playgrounds knowing they will never wait in a long line, where their ski experience is diminished.

Again, I'll cite MRG as a coop with some of the longer lines in this part of the country...

...what is the saying? No one goes there any more, it's too popular?

And do lines really "diminish" the experience? I say it depends where those are. If you're standing in line with 500 of like minder fellow skiers sliding along to the jams (a la basebox at MRG), I think it is PART of the experience. Big resorts? Well, that is PART of that experience too... which isn't a good one. So lines don't define the experience, the area defines the experience, lines or not.

You are at a catch 22 with membership skiing. You need to sell critical mass to have enough funds to run the area. But sell too many and you defeat the purpose you are going for. Sell too few and you are financially insolvent. And if you are referring to memberships as in private club members, that surprises me considering you were so gung ho on the community oriented coop area.

MRG, to the best of my knowledge, does not limit ticket sales. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

IMO, the skiing experience is affected when too many people share the same slopes and terrain, not to mention standing in a long line between runs.

We think there is a happy medium, stand by for more details.

Ask and you shall receive, this has been discussed many times:

deadheadskier : Does or has Mad River Glen considered either restricting ticket sales or increasing the daily rate on weekends?

Eric Friedman (Marketing Director MRG) :

To answer your question specifically no we don’t really limit sales per se, but we do stop selling tickets sometimes when the parking lot fills up. The reality is that when our lot is full, the lift lines get long and the Basebox Lodge is packed to capacity so the fact is the lot limits our capacity. The fact also is that we have a huge number of pass holders so we can’t stop them from coming. We do charge more on the weekend. ($66 weekend, $70 Holiday and $45 midweek) but the fact remains that many people still work and most people ski on weekends. If I can solve that whole midweek skiing problem I’ll be regarded as the smartest ski area marketing guy ever. Don’t hold your breath! This all being said I would guess that having lift lines that are too long is a far better problem to have than what some of our competitors are forced to deal with. Bottom line is if you can get here during the midweek I’d highly recommend it - check our website as the season approaches for some amazing online ticket deals –especially during the midweek periods.


-------------------

Thank you very much for sharing this.