Jay Peak's new waterpark

riverc0il wrote

skimore wrote

Fine for the hockey guys, but what about trying to keep the skiers around? We rarely use or get too concerned about using Jay peak lodging. What does it bring other than being close?

Harv once mentioned that while he has no interest in the Waterpark... if the Waterpark can get his family to Jay for a weekend so he can get to the mountain, it is a cool thing for him. I imagine many other families are in the same boat both with the waterpark and with the ice arena. Though the Ice Arena could stand on its own. In that regard, Jay recognized that the local community could use an Ice Arena and it could be profitable for the resort. I suspect that may be even more important than giving Jay yet another thing to do for its guests when the lifts stop turning.

These things are not being built for the hardcore skiers. But the hardcore skiers don't pay the bills... even at a place like Jay. Heck, even at a place like Mad River Glen for that matter. MRG wouldn't exist in its current form if it wasn't for families. Hardcores alone can not sustain operations of this magnitude.

The waterpark theme seem to distance it from what it has marketed itself as. It survived for many years as such. Why not improve upon that aspect?

Will the skiing every be conducive to attracting familys? Probably not

I can say every time we go there is  decent revenue spent elsewhere with lodging, wining and dining. What revenue does a waterpark bring other than lodging if there aren't other options after that? Doesn't seem that the waterpark is likely to draw a skiing family there.

I guess I'm not sure how the hockey crowd would spend more money than if they could get skiers to lodge, ski and remain there. Are the fees for using the rink that substantial?

skimore wrote

The waterpark theme seem to distance it from what it has marketed itself as. It survived for many years as such. Why not improve upon that aspect?

Will the skiing every be conducive to attracting familys? Probably not

I can say every time we go there is  decent revenue spent elsewhere with lodging, wining and dining. What revenue does a waterpark bring other than lodging if there aren't other options after that? Doesn't seem that the waterpark is likely to draw a skiing family there.

I guess I'm not sure how the hockey crowd would spend more money than if they could get skiers to lodge, ski and remain there. Are the fees for using the rink that substantial?

You'll just have to accept that the average skier (yes, even the average Jay skier and family) is not like you.

Jay has survived all these years without a waterpark. There is a difference between surviving and thriving. Jay saw an oppourtunity to reinvest in the resort with the goal of growing the resort into a true four season offering that is more profitable. Don't forget that the waterpark is a year round offering and so is the hockey rink whereas the skiing (and the golf) are seasonal. The waterpark is not for the people that only visit Jay for the skiing! We are in the minority. Most of Jay's guests want more stuff at the mountain. The hockey rink is booked up pretty much constantly from what I understand. This isn't about the skiing. This is about Jay being a four season operation with stuff to do for families when they aren't skiing.

riverc0il wrote

skimore wrote

The waterpark theme seem to distance it from what it has marketed itself as. It survived for many years as such. Why not improve upon that aspect?

Will the skiing every be conducive to attracting familys? Probably not

I can say every time we go there is  decent revenue spent elsewhere with lodging, wining and dining. What revenue does a waterpark bring other than lodging if there aren't other options after that? Doesn't seem that the waterpark is likely to draw a skiing family there.

I guess I'm not sure how the hockey crowd would spend more money than if they could get skiers to lodge, ski and remain there. Are the fees for using the rink that substantial?

You'll just have to accept that the average skier (yes, even the average Jay skier and family) is not like you.

Jay has survived all these years without a waterpark. There is a difference between surviving and thriving. Jay saw an oppourtunity to reinvest in the resort with the goal of growing the resort into a true four season offering that is more profitable. Don't forget that the waterpark is a year round offering and so is the hockey rink whereas the skiing (and the golf) are seasonal. The waterpark is not for the people that only visit Jay for the skiing! We are in the minority. Most of Jay's guests want more stuff at the mountain. The hockey rink is booked up pretty much constantly from what I understand. This isn't about the skiing. This is about Jay being a four season operation with stuff to do for families when they aren't skiing.

 I get the four season thing, but aren't these people going to have the same issues I'm whining about after the waterpark and skating. No options for dining, etc

skimore wrote

No options for dining, etc

Alice's and the new Clubhouse Grille don't count? SBR, is the CG only open during golf season?

And don't forget about the Tower Bar and the new Pizza place in the new Hotel Jay. And the IR is still there. Jay Peak has more than doubled its on mountain food offerings (non-cafeteria) and the increase in quality and value is astounding.

Jamesdeluxe wrote

... SBR, is the CG only open during golf season?

Uhhh, you're asking the wrong guy but I think so. On top of everything listed above there are some great off-mountain eateries: The Belfry, The Snowshoe, Bernie's, all in Montgomery, several in Jay Village and more in Newport.

Interesting thing about the waterpark: I haven't seen any other threads on it in any other forums (I don't know about TGR). RFID seems to be the big thing most folks are talking about.

Morning all.  You guys seem to have quite the handle on things so not sure how much I can add.  I will say that the hockey model brings a lot more to the table than some give it credit for.  As of this am, we are 7 weeks in to our new fiscal and of the remaining 45 weeks, nearly 30 of them have a hockey tournaments integrated into them.  That's 8-12 teams with needs of roughly 3-5 lodging units per team, ice rental revenue, f and b, waterpark/skiing and what's proven to be a ton of per cap spending.  This is business that isn't attached to a need for clear skies or deep snow, pays in advance and is 100% additive to our model from as recent as 12 months ago.

To the folks wondering how a waterpark impacts family skiers/riders-man if I knew that I had the ability to book a ski vacation at an area that, on average, gets more snow than anywhere in New England, there was good, affordable lodging right on campus, unlimited indoor skating access was included and there was an indoor waterpark to help mitigate the fear surrounding the potential for bad weather, I'd be pretty interested in learning more.  But the other factor here is that the model here needs to extend past the 9 weeks of winter where we have a chance to make money (we and every other resort anywhere-98% of them-lose money or float neutral the other 43 weeks).  Having a waterpark means we have a chance to fill April-June which, historically, finds ski resorts executing Spring Break programs or some other ill-sounding skit where folks get mandatory vacations for the stretch.  Same goes for the entire summer.  We trim our staff and try to stop the bleeding put it puts tremendous stress on the folks left to run everything not to mention the burden of having to retrain an almost completely distinct front line workforce come Autumn.  The waterpark needs to draw in folks that would have never considered coming to Jay Peak for a vacation.  Even for me, that can be tough to get your (the collective) head around given the tumbleweed this place morphs into come April 30th.  Suffice to say, this place is, now, insane on a daily basis and part of me is beyond terrified but I've also been part of the alternative (cutting, halting, stopping,) and I think I'd rather be terrified of the upside than worried about downside.  Anyway, hope summer's going well for you guys and that we see you around here sometime.  steve

Great post by stevejpr1. We all need to remember how difficult the ski business can be. Throw in the weather and you can have a real problem. Kudos to any resort that can fill beds and eateries year round. Fond memories of simpler times creates a feeling that many of today's resorts are turning into amusement parks. The facts tell a different story. If Jay can make these additions work more power to them. It will only enhance the skiing.

x10003q wrote

Great post by stevejpr1. We all need to remember how difficult the ski business can be. ......  If Jay can make these additions work more power to them. It will only enhance the skiing.

Hear, hear. Thanks to Steve@jpr for chiming in and giving his usual frank perspective. Let's hope all the $ made from the ice rink and WP get funneled into, say, upgrading the Stateside bathrooms (sorry to keep harping on that one).

Sick Bird Rider wrote

upgrading the Stateside bathrooms

The Stateside bathrooms were ghastly. Even worse than the ones next to the ticket office at Plattekill. They made that stinking pissoir at MRG seem like a rose garden -- I haven't been there in a few years; have they replaced it?

The MRG Trough is still there but without the no diving sticker. They recently fixed up the bathrooms at MRG. Can't say that about Stateside at Jay for sure. All the new stuff Tramside has made Stateside look even worse.

Pics from the Jay Peak Twitter feed...


Glass Corridor between East and West Wings


The Hot Tub


New Trees around the Hotel


Outdoor Pool


Garage Door for Waterpark Pumphouse


Hotel Jay Restaurant Deck


The Pizzeria

http://travel.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/travel/with-renovations-jay-peak-in-vermont-grows-up.html

A water park would be a great tourist draw for North Creek.

The entire Saturday travel section of the NY times was dedicated to sking/riding.  Nice picture of Ms. Vonn on the front page.  They also had a 36 hours in lake placid story here:

http://travel.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/travel/36-hours-lake-placid-ny.html

Article on Jay Peak here:

http://vtsports.com/pump-house-at-jay-peak-kind-of-cant-believe-this-exists