Snowmaking at Woodstream 2k17

Cool! It's a short drive. Almost in the same county.

Ethan Snow wrote

I'm on NYSEG. The 252 volts is at the pannel. I've measured it at the end of a line as well, and it's always above 240. Or 120.

 It will most likely be a 5 HP motor. Although, I have an extra honda engine sitting in my garage, and I may end up using that. It will cut the cost of a motor and expensive Copper wire.

Be careful with a gas powered engine, since you will be pumping a lot of water the engine will be at full load most of the time and they usually are not rated thermally to do that - i.e. you may burn it up pretty quickly. Marine engines & tractors are the exception. The other issue is the operating life hours on a gas engine are usually pretty low.

The other thing to consider if you decide to go electric on a long wire is the power factor when you are running motors. This will cause more drop in the line than you might normally plan for so over rating the line is required. Lastly, if you plan on Motor starters to control the motor make sure that you rate them properly, some relays will have a 440 rating and a 240 rating as well as separate HP ratings for motors, make sure to size them correctly. If you don't than the contacts will weld and the relay will not release when you want it to. I have learned these lessons the hard (and expensive) way...

Yup. If I go Gas motor, it will be oversized so that I do not stress it out. I really want to go electric however, because it will be better for the long haul, and much quieter.

I know full well that I need to oversize the wire. For a 230 volt motor, I am probably going to need a 6 awg wire for a 250' run. Maybe I can get away with 8. When I do the calculations, allowing for a 10 volt drop, I can seem to safely run on an 8 awg, but I still think 6 wold be safer.

Any thoughts on wire size based on 240 volts, 20 amps, and a 250' distance?

I was thinking that if I have 240+ volts at the panel, and if the motor is for 230 then a 10 volt drop would be acceptable.

Yes?

No?

Maybe?

Bigger is better. The issue will be the starting current, if you can start the pump under no load and then add the load gradually that will help. 5HP is 3700W which at 240V is 15.5A with a peak current of 22A, so figure on a peak of 25A. I have no idea what the starting current will be.
At 250' #8 is 0.314 ohms (out and back) so ~7.5V, you will be dissipating 200W in the wire, not a good thing. #4 would cut that in half. I am not a power guy but I would be thinking #6 or #4, would be a lot easier on the motors and figure out a way to give them a soft start.

An air compressor motor that has to start with a full load on it may draw 22A, but the motor I will most likely use will be more like 19 amps.  My pump will never have to start under load. Will always start at 0 PSI, and the pressure will build up after it's running. I think a 6 AWG would be more than adequate. The smaller the number, the more expensive the wire.

Ethan Snow wrote

Yes?

No?

Maybe?

Hehehe. You forgot the .......

Progress on the new Woodstream snowmaking system continues. Pipe has been purchased to provide snowmaking to the Red Dragon park, as well as Upper and Lower Susky. Our goal is to finish installing the plumbing on those trails for this season. Next year I may expand further. A used high pressure pump has also been ordered, and is expected via UPS later this week. I couldn't be more excited about this project, and I hope to begin pressure testing the system by October!

Looks awesome Ethan! How deep is the pipe getting buried?

Thanks! I am not burying it very deep because I may want to pull it up someday just in case I ever move on. About 4-6 inches. It would be a huge job to bury it below frostline, and I am designing it to be drained easily.

The predicted deep Central NY snowpack will protect those lines!  

Got it. Draining immediately after the pressure drops is key- I'm sure you already thought of that though. Seems like you know what you're doing

Harvey wrote

The predicted deep Central NY snowpack  

 Awesome! Do you have a source for this information?

Didn't you see that fire Campi was burning skis in?  He set your neck of the woods up for one heck of a winter.  

It was shameless summer stoke.

So, its been a while since I have posted updated in regards to my new snowmaking system at Woodstream. Lets face it, this is really just an elongated residential snowmaker on steroids. The entire system makes about as much snow as a stick gun at a ski resort. However this is going to be huge for me and Woodstream.  We will have 4X the snowmaking capacity of last year. It's official, the pipeline is in, and I am already able to pump water. If you look you will see that that sucker is pushing 600 Psi through my pipeline! There is a 50 Psi drop at the summit. I will most likely run three guns on this system.


That thing next to the pressure gauge is a relief valve to release unused water while maintaining pressure.

and still need to build two more guns to use all my pumping capacity, but the pressure runs this gun nicely.

Are you using the system to water your dads lawn in the summer?  Looks like it would be great for that.

tjf1967 wrote

Are you using the system to water your dads lawn in the summer?  Looks like it would be great for that.

....and mix in a bit of DEET in the spring.

Looking good, Ethan. Do you think you were the first in the east to blow out the mice? Really cool.

Great job! Can't wait to see your system full bore making snow.