Solar energy initiative for Gore, WF and Belleayre

Harvey on his A game! Solar for the win!!  

If we keystone and drill baby drill we can tell the middle east to go to hell and reduce Def spending.  I like Harv's idea and we as a country can be the most innovative in the world in this area.  That doesn't mean any more Solaydra crap though.  Spend it on real R&D to create a tech advantage.

snoloco wrote

If you remove all the trees that provide some shade to your house, you'll end up spending just as much as you'll save to keep the AC on more so your house stays comfortable.

Stoweloco FTW

PeeTex wrote

x10003q wrote

Germany recently peaked at 50% of their electricity from solar panels a little over a month ago. 90% of the solar in Germany is small arrays on individual's roof tops. The latitude of Germany is around 48dN to 54dN. Quebec City is 46.8dN latitude. The US -Canadian border in the Western part of the US is 49dN latitude and Edmonton is around the 52dN latitude. Solar works fine in the northernly latitudes.

Germany is not a model for Solar, they may have installed a higher percentage than any other country but it has been at a huge cost. The Germany public demanded that they get off nuks and they had 9 plants with poor safety records so that decided to shut them down and they needed to replace that power without being dependent on Russian gas, so they went to renewables. That sounds good but now they pay more than any other country for electric power - $0.34/kWH. They have had to build coal plants to keep a spinning reserve for when the solar isn't providing power and some reports say they have actually increased their CO2. Unfortunately I have yet to find a credible scientific study to say whether they are better or worse off from a pollution perspective but what we do know is that many of their working poor have dropped off the grid because they can't afford the cost - I guess that's one way to save the planet.

Nice rant but a wasted effort. I was just pointing out that if solar panels could generate power in Germany then they could generate power in upstate NY.

FYI - In 2015 the generation costs to individuals in Germany are $.071/kwh and grid charges are $.067/kwh. That accounts for 48% of the bill. The rest of the bill is taxes. The actual generation cost are $.04 less than I pay in NJ.

x10003q wrote

Nice rant but a wasted effort. I was just pointing out that if solar panels could generate power in Germany then they could generate power in upstate NY.

FYI - In 2015 the generation costs to individuals in Germany are $.071/kwh and grid charges are $.067/kwh. That accounts for 48% of the bill. The rest of the bill is taxes. The actual generation cost are $.04 less than I pay in NJ.

Wow - your math is crazy. If solar was so good for Germany why is their generation cost $0.07/kwH? It should be much much lower. Oh and lets just forget about the fact that they pay another $0.067KWH to support the "renewable" infrastructure and we haven't even gotten to the cost of distribution or taxes yet.  In NY, supply rates are $0.07/kWh and we have about a $0.005/kWhr renewable charge. So the public got what they wanted and the poor suffer.  

There are ridiculously high external costs you're not considering.

http://www.energyandpolicy.org/value-of-solar-versus-fossil-fuels-part-two

mattchuck2 wrote

There are ridiculously high external costs you're not considering.

http://www.energyandpolicy.org/value-of-solar-versus-fossil-fuels-part-two

I think most every human understands at some level that burning fossil fuel has a hidden cost.  While I think that kind of analysis is important to encourage change, personally I don't need quantify it to want to do something about it.

mattchuck2 wrote

There are ridiculously high external costs you're not considering.

http://www.energyandpolicy.org/value-of-solar-versus-fossil-fuels-part-two

Unfortunately the same article could be written about Solar. People see the panel and think free clean energy. What they don't see are all the deadly chemicals and wastes it took to make it. I am all for renewables and I think the "drill baby drill" people are reckless. Solar panels are not ready yet, they may be in time but we need to understand a lot more about the physics before we get there and that's what we need to fund. Let's build solar furnaces, algae farms and passive solar and do more reasearch.

PeeTex wrote

  Let's build solar furnaces

man that would be something

PeeTex wrote

x10003q wrote

Nice rant but a wasted effort. I was just pointing out that if solar panels could generate power in Germany then they could generate power in upstate NY.

FYI - In 2015 the generation costs to individuals in Germany are $.071/kwh and grid charges are $.067/kwh. That accounts for 48% of the bill. The rest of the bill is taxes. The actual generation cost are $.04 less than I pay in NJ.

Wow - your math is crazy. If solar was so good for Germany why is their generation cost $0.07/kwH? It should be much much lower. Oh and lets just forget about the fact that they pay another $0.067KWH to support the "renewable" infrastructure and we haven't even gotten to the cost of distribution or taxes yet.  In NY, supply rates are $0.07/kWh and we have about a $0.005/kWhr renewable charge. So the public got what they wanted and the poor suffer.

What math? The costs are what they are and I was pointing out your presentation of $.34/kwh (actually now closer to $.29/kwh) for Germany includes over 50% in various taxes. Maybe you can point out where I said that solar is good for Germany. The German solar initiatives have destabilized the German grid, cost big bucks and have increased C02 emissions.

I highlighted the important part of my post that you seemed to ignore.
German electric cost breakdown

Then that was my misunderstanding of your post, I thought you were holding them up as a model for Solar. Germany politically had to do what they did but the German people and in particular the poor are paying the price.

PeeTex wrote

solar furnaces

I had no idea what these were:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_furnace

Seems like a no brainer?  Boil water to power generators or...what?

Must be a the downside, why aren't we doing it?

Harvey wrote

PeeTex wrote

solar furnaces

I had no idea what these were:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_furnace

Seems like a no brainer?  Boil water to power generators or...what?

Must be a the downside, why aren't we doing it?

Because it isn't sexy

Maybe there's some way we could work beautiful girls with bikinis into the process.  You know, anything to save the planet.

Solar smolar

The Big K is being powered by cow poop.  Way more green and it works 24/7 unlike solar.  The Govs peeps are kicking themselves right now by being over PR'ed by Green Mt cow $hit

http://www.powder.com/stories/news/killingtons-big-dumps/#EM3VIW0QkU8bX6u0.97

Timely post, Saturday night I had dinner in Vt with a scientist working for an international group working on these types of alternative energy sources for emerging countries. We talked about this very thing as well as how the U.S. environmentalist keep going after the most complicated and expensive solutions when Mother Nature provides many of the answers right under our noses...

I can see it now.  A meeting in Albany and the cow alternative is pitched and one of the Govs handlers says no way are we hitching our wagons to bull crap, solar is way more sexy regardless if it works or not.  Oh the irony that shit works better but the politics really is bs.

Not taking anything away from Solar and those smart enough to take Fed/State funds to lessen their utility bills.  


However if anyone thinks for a moment that there is not a hidden cost of this, I'm sorry for you.    


If solar was, as the article suggests, less expensive than what is currently happening, why does it take the Governor and special announcements to make it occur?   Hello?   Mountain or GM should be seeking the cheapest power, just as businesses and homeowners do.    If there were not hidden costs, every business in North Country would be jumping on the bandwagon.    Supply and Demand would drive costs either higher or lower.   This is about PR--and as noted, too late.   Kmart got the Green Skier vote by their poop powered Gondi.  

If the deal was a true deal, no need to force or persuade anyone into it.  I'd say we will not know the merits for 5-10 years when the deal comes out in the light of day.   Hidden money makes it to the books every now and again.    

All that said, good for Gore.   Nice PR without any significant impact on lift fees.    

PeeTex wrote

 Let's build solar furnaces, algae farms and passive solar and do more reasearch.

They have built a "solar furnace" and it hasn't worked out as well as expected.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjABahUKEwj_9d_7hZDHAhUCUD4KHX0NAI8&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FList_of_solar_thermal_power_stations&ei=9gLBVf-iJ4Kg-QH9moD4CA&usg=AFQjCNEhlJK3GTmH4uT7qwCJr-yMlQLNUQ&bvm=bv.99261572,d.dmo

That's not to say we can't improve on it, but the concept is being tried.

For solar panels, a major reason for the subsidies is to increase production volume. As volume increases, cost per unit decreases and hopefully at some point it becomes self sustaining.

tom

But if the Chinese are making 90% of the world panels why are us tax payers subsidizing that?

There is a vast global conspiracy but it ain't right wing.