The Helmet Discussion Thread

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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

x10003q
YUKON CORNELIUS wrote
That's fine. I ended up with a concussion earlier in the year when I fell going pretty fast and without a helmet. Effects lasted about a week and a half. It sucked. A helmet wouldn't have prevented it. Oh well.

 I really don't have anything else to add to the discussion.
I am curious how you know that a helmet would not have prevented your concussion. Not looking to argue - just curious.
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

dmc_hunter
In reply to this post by Skidds
Skidds wrote
dmc_hunter wrote
Sometimes people wearing helmets take bigger chances because they are wearing one...
Which was one of Matt's relevant points as to why he doesn't wear.

I hear you, the loss of death sucks and can be painful to talk about.  However, death is a fact of life, and can happen for a myriad of reasons.  I think there can be learning from any death, and as painful as it can be I think it's worth talking about.  I'd like to think something potentially 'good' can come from every death, giving some measure of meaning to the persons life and sacrifice.
yeah... but it gets to the point that people like to be the first to post such things...  And then there's all the conjecture..


I know death surrounds our sport...

I've  read "Not Without Peril"...  It's pretty wild..   There's not many places at Tuckerman where people haven't died..
http://www.amazon.com/Not-Without-Peril-Misadventure-Presidential/dp/1929173067
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

kenneywallace
A skinnier at 60 takes a header into a tree, no helping them just luck,

A skinnier at 10- 20 skis under a low branch and just catches the branch with the top of their head, no helmet a skull break, add a helmet they live, but still may get a concussion but live.......

Theirs a freashhold that helmets can save you, I have had several hits where the helmet saved me

The idea of a crash is all energy transfer across your body, collapsing foam helmets reduce energy transfer to a point, any little bit can (anyone blasting 're read the word can) help, but yes like the whitespace kid theirs times when theirs no help..... helmets are good for sure, but everyone will always have a different idea,

Makes me look dumb, messes up my hair, don't feel good, ..... whatever your choice is
Black diamonds, the easy way down, less moving hazzards
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

YUKON CORNELIUS
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by x10003q
x10003q wrote
YUKON CORNELIUS wrote
That's fine. I ended up with a concussion earlier in the year when I fell going pretty fast and without a helmet. Effects lasted about a week and a half. It sucked. A helmet wouldn't have prevented it. Oh well.

 I really don't have anything else to add to the discussion.
I am curious how you know that a helmet would not have prevented your concussion. Not looking to argue - just curious.
According to the ap on my phone, I was skiing at around 55mph when I fell. I started to go down forwards, came out of one ski, then torqued sideways from a crouch as I caught my right ski's outside edge, resulting in the right side of my head slapping into the ground. I then chucked the 2nd ski and slid about 25 feet.

This is an interesting article: NY Times - Ski Helmet Use Isn't Reducing Brain Injuries

"Shealy, who has been studying snow-sports-related injuries at Sugarbush resort in Vermont for more than 30 years, said that could be because those injuries typically involve a rotational component that today’s helmets cannot mitigate. He said his research had not found any decline in what he called P.S.H.I.’s, for potentially serious head injuries, a classification that includes concussion, skull fracture, closed head injury, traumatic brain injury and death by head injury."

"“The helmet does a very good job at protecting against skull lacerations and skull fractures, but it doesn’t seem to have much effect on concussions or T.B.I.’s,” Shealy said, referring to traumatic brain injuries. “Our guess is that this is due to the fact that those injuries are occurring at such a high magnitude of energy that they overwhelm what a helmet can do for you.”"
"This is pure snow! Do you have any idea what the street value of this mountain is?"
Z
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

Z
These phone apps so overstate your speed.

If you were really going 55 you would have slid way more than 25 feet.  Just watch a World Cup fall when they are going that fast and see they they go hundreds of yards after falling at those speeds.
if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

YUKON CORNELIUS
I have tested it in a car and it matched to within about 1mph. (Alpinereplay BTW)

Either way, it hurt. Everywhere. Definite concussion as well.
"This is pure snow! Do you have any idea what the street value of this mountain is?"
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

ScottyJack
In reply to this post by YUKON CORNELIUS
YUKON CORNELIUS wrote
According to the ap on my phone....
Now this ^^^^  should be a thread of its own!!!  Hall of Fame possibilites 4sure!!!

According to the app on my phone - I AM THE MAN!!!  

According to the app on my phone - Chicks dig me above all others

According to the app on my phone - I am so much better than you

According to the app on my phone - Everyone wants to be me!

According to the app on my phone - I am never wrong!!

According to the app on my phone - I am in demand!  

According to the app on my phone - You are not worthy.  

According to the app on my phone - Mine is way bigger than yours!!  

According to the app on my phone - According to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phonev
I ride with Crazy Horse!
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

YUKON CORNELIUS
Yeah yeah yeah.  I posted that for science and physics purposes only.

ScottyJack wrote
According to the app on my phone - Mine is way bigger than yours!!  
I don't have an ap for that one, but feel free to confirm it with your wife and/or mom.

"This is pure snow! Do you have any idea what the street value of this mountain is?"
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

dmc_hunter
Was riding without my helmet on Sunday - it was awesome....  I hate wearing that thing...
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

Big D
OH NO!! Snowboard girl at Hunter, without a helmet... call the Helmet police
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

PeeTex
In reply to this post by MC2 5678F589
mattchuck2 wrote
I just thought it might be nice to confine dumb debates to one thread.
Why should we start now?
Don't ski the trees, ski the spaces between the trees.
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

ScottyJack
In reply to this post by YUKON CORNELIUS
YUKON CORNELIUS wrote
Yeah yeah yeah.  I posted that for science and physics purposes only.

I don't have an ap for that one, but feel free to confirm it with your wife and/or mom.

Wow.  that response is so 1980s.  Shocked the phone app guy couldn't come up with something the least bit witty or clever...  

 
I ride with Crazy Horse!
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

campgottagopee
In reply to this post by ScottyJack
ScottyJack wrote
 

Now this ^^^^  should be a thread of its own!!!  Hall of Fame possibilites 4sure!!!

According to the app on my phone - I AM THE MAN!!!  

According to the app on my phone - Chicks dig me above all others

According to the app on my phone - I am so much better than you

According to the app on my phone - Everyone wants to be me!

According to the app on my phone - I am never wrong!!

According to the app on my phone - I am in demand!  

According to the app on my phone - You are not worthy.  

According to the app on my phone - Mine is way bigger than yours!!  

According to the app on my phone - According to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phoneAccording to the app on my phonev
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

dmc_hunter
In reply to this post by Big D
Big D wrote
OH NO!! Snowboard girl at Hunter, without a helmet... call the Helmet police
Hardly anyone was wearing a helmet that day...  

Last run some weren't wearing pants either...
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

I:)skiing
Helmet thread:  I thought this was longer and all issues were presented.   However that may have been an old Epic Ski thread.  

1) Instructors at Liberty Mountain where I work are not required to wear helmets yet. We hear news of a change.   Neither are our customers, kids, teens or adults. We do rent them to the public at a CRAZY $7:00 per day fee.    That makes me sad.  I hate it when moms/dads ask if their kids need a helmet.  I feel the need to say yes, because I believe it, but also feel like they spent tons of money and dont need to shell out more.   Been to other resorts where helmets are simply handed to kids, no rent.      
2) Instructors and ALL class members are required to wear a helmet in the T-park.  
3) Most helmets are "one time damage" per the mfgr specs/warnings.   That said, I think it is reasonable to look at the foam to see if it was negatively affected.   Dont take my advice, do your own analysis.     I would think that a major hit would get me to replace the helmet whether it looked bad or not.     A minor hit, I'd look.
4) I have had mixed results with customers who report helmet returns when damaged.  Discounts, free replacements and nasty...."go get a new one, what do you want us to do, you damaged it"   I think it is less on the mfgr and more on 1) the customer service rep, 2) the story of how it got damaged, 3) whether the story has "wow" internet public affairs value.  

I started wearing a helmet for warmth.   Grew to love it and need it like my security blanket.   I know I ski faster and do more stupid things because I am wearing it; I also know that it won't protect me from all harm.  I feel there is a false sense of security, I hear kids say they would not do xyz, but since they have a helmet  they will/do.    I now wear mine, even on hot days when I am teaching green kids, out of a do as I do leadership position.    I respect and understand instructors and clinicians who do not wear helmets, citing the many reasons including decreased visibility/flexibility, which I also agree with.   I recently chose a BRIGHT red helmet for my students to see me.  It works and I find my job of collecting kids to be easier when they come to me, rather than follow an instructor who otherwise looks like me.      Our hill is very crowded with guests and instructors, it is easy to get mixed up.  

At the Gore pondskimming contest this year they required helmets for all participants.    However they did not tell us before hand.    I debated the safety issues with helmets and water on my own before the contest.  My mind told me it was safer to hit the water without a helmet and left my kids at the base.     I got to ski down and hike up immediately before we went...thanks.      Once I returned, out of breath, they delivered helmets for participants to use, free.   I cannot tell you why I think it might be safer to fall/swim without a helmet, just seems safter.     That said, I understand Gore's approach and demand.    Likely insurance driven.   However they did not have a person or two with a swimming pool hook?    This is standard equipment at all of the other skims we attended.  (4 this year)    Its very hard for kids to swim out of a pond in skis.    


I agree that helmet debate discussion should be limited to this thread/or similar on topic threads.  Especially when a person is severaly injured or dies. Helmet or no helmet.    

I had two very bad falls this year.    I was going very, very fast when both occured.   Carving black groomed trails at max speed the skis, hill and my technique would allow.    Over 40mph for sure, ski app said 60mph but who cares--it was fast.   One fall, a din release when I had my outside ski loaded and it sank in a foot of groomed sugar.  The other fall occured when I hit a rut that the NASTAR keepers did not plow away when they tore down the race. (this really pissed me off, the rut was a good 6" deep)     Both resulted in me sliding well over 80 yards with either one or two skis, unable to arrest until I went off trail into softer snow.    I did not hit a trees that existed in either case, nor did I hit my head on the snow/ice when I went down. As I was sliding, I vividly recalled my family, how stupid I was for not running the course before going the speeds I was going and that I was glad I was wearing a helmet.    The helmet may  not have done much but I was glad it was on.     That said, perhaps if I was not wearing it, I would have skied slower or checked out the course first.     Ying/Yang.    Chicken/Egg    God forbid, if I ever do get injured or die from a head accident while skiing, I don't want my friends/family/or you all saying...."if only he wore a helmet"      

Aside, I also road bike and HATE those helmets.     I have seen lots of car impacts, ditch falls and down right nasty falls off bikes, especially when foot clips are used.   Lots of crushed helmets and bloody faces.   As much as I hate these helmets, I strap it on for even a quick ride around the neighborhood, likely where most accidents occur.  

For both helmets, they must be worn chin strap tight.    A worse injury could occur otherwise.    


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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

Petronio
In reply to this post by MC2 5678F589
mattchuck2 wrote
I just thought it might be nice to confine dumb debates to one thread.
 
This one is for you, Matt:  Responsible Kylo Ren



Petronio
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Re: The Helmet Discussion Thread

Turd Ferguson
Theirs a freashhold that helmets can save you, I have had several hits where the helmet saved me

The idea of a crash is all energy transfer across your body, collapsing foam helmets reduce energy transfer to a point, any little bit can (anyone blasting 're read the word can) help, but yes like the whitespace kid theirs times when theirs no help..... helmets are good for sure, but everyone will always have a different idea,
Kenney took the words right out of my mouth.  The helmet dissipates some energy from the impact, and that's that much less energy that your head absorbs in the process of rapid declaration.  The relative extent of the benefit depends on the particular incident.  Whether or not it is enough to keep your brain from bouncing off the inside of your skull will depend.  They do offer additional protection from abrasions, lacerations, etc., which is nice if you catch a small branch or something on the noggin.

I started wearing a helmet just a few years back.  I find it comfortable and warm.  The sliding vents are a great feature as well.

I don't really care whether other people do, or not.  Not my problem.
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