What Makes a Mountain Ski Big or Small?

You and I, as advanced skiers, can get on a 500 fpm lift without any issues and can sometimes take it for granted.  However, intermediates and beginners can't do that very well and there will be lots of stops and slows.  Exactly what can lifties do that will prevent stops and slows on a 500 fpm lift.  It just doesn't work like you think it does.  I've never worked a lift, but I do work on amusement park rides, in which loading them can be somewhat similar.  No matter how hard you try to keep things moving, there will be people that aren't ready when they should be, or don't know how to get on, or any other number of things that will slow it down.

On shorter lifts, a fast fixed grip lift can be much cheaper and pretty much just as effective as a detachable.  However, when lifts get longer, particularly over 5000 feet, the benefit of being able to run at double the speed saves a lot more time.  Would you rather have a 14 minute ride to The Saddle at Gore, or a 7 minute ride on the Adk Express?

One thing I think we can agree on is that high speed lifts and especially gondolas do not belong on short beginner lifts at all.  I'm not talking about things like Killington's Snowshed Express (about 3500 feet long).  I'm talking about high speed lifts under 3000 or even 2000 feet.  Beaver Creek even has a frickin gondola as their beginner lift that isn't any longer than the Kids Kampus lift at WF.  The worst part of this besides having to pay for these monstrosities through more expensive lift tickets, is that these beginners never learn how to get on and off a fixed grip lift.  That means that when they are advanced enough to ski terrain off a fixed grip, they won't know how to properly get on and off, causing lots of stops and slow downs.  I have always known how to ride a fixed grip since the first day I've skied, and could count on one hand the times I've caused a slow down or a full stop after my first season.

It can be done, Sno. The single season I worked as a liftie was at Alpine Meadows on a lift called the Weasel ( no longer there). It was a fixed grip riblet double. It was the main route to access the back side (I think it was called Sherwood; it's been a long time) but it also served a bunch of blue and green trails which made it a sort of "step 2" for beginners that felt they had conquered the bunny hill. Since the season pass holders had to ride if to get to the back side, our bosses told us to do whatever we had to do keep it going full speed. It had a mid station but it also had 2 loading stations. Let that sink in... TWO LOADING STATIONS.  Halfway up the line, near a little lodge and another lift, there was another spot to get on. Loading at the second station was complete insanity. When it was open, the guy at the bottom was supposed to load every other chair but often the skiers would space and just follow the dude in front of them. You really had to be assertive and spot the airheads ahead of time to pre-empt them messing up the system. Of course the bottom guy could get lazy or forget the upper loading station was open once in a while so the guy loading chairs up there had keep looking down the line to make sure he had an empty chair to load. And no matter his assertive you were, some airhead would not listen. I would be there waving my hands saying "don't ski out! Don't ski out!" and it would have no effect and two people slide out in front of a full chair. So I would step step out, push one or both dudes back into the waiting area and/or give them a bear hug and pull them forward, towards my control panel, out of the way of the chair. Management just wanted to keep the chair moving so if was all good. People would get a really surprised look on their face for a second but I would point down the line at a couple of kids already in the chair, laughing their asses off. The only thing I was ever questioned about was when I hit a full-speed stop with one of the bosses on the lift. When it came to just run-of-the-mill beginner skiers falling down or not positioning themselves correctly of whatever, you grab the front of their jacket and bend them into the seat or you bump the chair in their direction to scoop them up. It doesn't work 100% of the time but almost. I know this sounds like insanity to millenials but it worked really really well.

Harvey wrote

raisingarizona wrote

I love high speed lifts, I don't get where Harv is coming from at all on this one.

You're a 35yo rock star.  You are skiing huge uncrowded areas out west.  You are the guy who can really take advantage of a high speed chair.

I'm pushing 60, never skied until I was 40, and I'm on teles.  I often ski with guys like you* so I've got the gas pedal to the floor a lot. I actually started taking photos because I'm always stopping anyway, so why not.  It's not unusual for me to stop 4x on a 1500 vert run.

For me, shorter (vert), slower lifts are an equalizer. They allow me to keep up and get more of the early morning untracked. They allow me to ski longer into the day with my friends.

I find that unless the mountain is empty that with a high speed lift you wait in line, with a slower lift you wait on the chair and check out the views.

When you come from a nordic background getting up 2000 feet in 10 minutes or whatever feels like plenty of help. I've done entire days in the woods where the vert was 2000.

I've had most of the pow in my life at Gore, North Creek Ski Bowl, Plattekill, Hickory, Snow Ridge and McCauley. Only Gore has a high speed chair and those chairs don't serve the best terrain (except maybe the BRQ).

You can say hey just quit tele.  But I like it. All I'm doing is expressing my preference.

(*ok maybe not like you but way better than me)

I'm turning 42 on  September 3rd. I'm far from a "rockstar" now. I'm just into skiing powder these days and doing fast hot laps when inbounds on the right days. I ski with a lot of older guys every day I get out, just check out my last season edit. I still prefer fast lifts. Sitting in long slow lines sucks but it sucks even more when the lift is slow as shit and I'm getting limited vert and freezing my ass off.

But then again I don't give a crap about preservation, get it when you can and then go tour is my general state of mind. So it's basically 3 hours of IB then go start walking for me. I guess it's hard to be in the same state of mind that you guys have in NY.

If you watch my season edit from this last season most of those lines are one of two or three for the day. I dig on the make em count way more than having a big number of runs and vert for sure.

Keep in mind that fixed grip lifts were the norm back then and people were more used to getting on and off them.  The liberal snowflake lawsuit happy society we have today would also not be cool with some guy pushing or grabbing them.  I saw some idiot ask to have the Lookout chair at WF slowed for kids who looked to be at least 10.  If you can't get on and off a lift by yourself at that age, then you need to go back to the bunny hill.  Now we have loading gates for lifts that have multiple loading stations and they can be programed to leave different numbers of chairs empty depending on the crowds on a given day.

The first HSQ was at Breckinridge in 1981.  It's now at Owl's Head (Eastern Townships of Quebec).

HS lifts are great.  I hate those conveyor belts for loading though.  

Brownski wrote

  I know this sounds like insanity to millenials but it worked really really well.

Especially to those who know it all

Yeah all this is much ado bout NOTHING , as a wise ole guy former D 1 racer i ski with says " just shaddup n ski "

warp daddy wrote

Yeah all this is much ado bout NOTHING , as a wise ole guy former D 1 racer i ski with says " just shaddup n ski "

I have a "Shut up and Ski" sticker on my helmet.  

Brownski wrote

It had a mid station but it also had 2 loading stations. Let that sink in... TWO LOADING STATIONS.  Halfway up the line, near a little lodge and another lift, there was another spot to get on. Loading at the second station was complete insanity. When it was open, the guy at the bottom was supposed to load every other chair but often the skiers would space and just follow the dude in front of them. You really had to be assertive and spot the airheads ahead of time to pre-empt them messing up the system. Of course the bottom guy could get lazy or forget the upper loading station was open once in a while so the guy loading chairs up there had keep looking down the line to make sure he had an empty chair to load. And no matter his assertive you were, some airhead would not listen. I would be there waving my hands saying "don't ski out! Don't ski out!" and it would have no effect and two people slide out in front of a full chair. So I would step step out, push one or both dudes back into the waiting area and/or give them a bear hug and pull them forward, towards my control panel, out of the way of the chair. Management just wanted to keep the chair moving so if was all good. People would get a really surprised look on their face for a second but I would point down the line at a couple of kids already in the chair, laughing their asses off. The only thing I was ever questioned about was when I hit a full-speed stop with one of the bosses on the lift. When it came to just run-of-the-mill beginner skiers falling down or not positioning themselves correctly of whatever, you grab the front of their jacket and bend them into the seat or you bump the chair in their direction to scoop them up. It doesn't work 100% of the time but almost. I know this sounds like insanity to millenials but it worked really really well.

That sounds like a Benny Hill skit.