What's going on with Hickory?

Who the heck is MikeK? I remember a couple of extreme posters but I can't put that name together.

I wasn't being that EXTREME! :)

Tequila is a hell of a drug.

raisingarizona wrote

Tenney, Balsams, whatever.....pfft! Dude you are so out of touch with whats going on with our environment. I get it, it's not easy to be connected living in Boston... blah blah blah

You sir, need to get a grip. I do not live in Boston. I live in central NH where I have lived for the past 9 years. Before that I lived in northeast VT for a few years. I haven't lived in the Boston area since 2005. In the other thread in which you also previously either misread or misunderstood what I wrote, I was talking about my past history.

But that is besides the point, where I live has no impact on my views on the world. You attack me like I am some kinda of climate change denier because I cited the FACT that many previously lost ski areas have come back. And many on the edge are resurging. I take offense to your implication.

But whatever, let's address my view on climate change. Civilization and the animal kingdom are screwed in the long run for sure, 100%. Species will continue to go extinct, those that survive will need to adapt to a different world. Less well off peoples of the world will really take it hard. I don't see any hope for the world coming together to fix it, it is only continuing to get worse. I doubt skiing will still be a thing by some point in the next century, at least not in the way it is now.

All that doesn't change the fact that more ski areas in New England have been reborn than lost in recent years (I believe I failed to mention Big Squaw in ME which also came back recently as a community area). Maybe that will change and after a short resurgence lots of places will begin failing. I don't doubt that trend will begin in my lifetime in New England.

You seem like a pretty cool dude and I am genuinely baffled and surprised by your two recent outbursts directed at me... both of which attacked me for views and opinions I do not hold.

He had a big meltdown last spring and was banned because of it.  It was environmentally related.  http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Plunge-The-Catskill-Beast-td4079071.html#a4079115

raisingarizona wrote

Tequila is a hell of a drug.

Ugghhh....te-kill-ya and I have a terrible relationship.  Bad things happen.

We tend to do dumb shit when we are fucked up.*

* place the movie quote.

raisingarizona wrote

Tequila is a hell of a drug.

RA what's your brand?

whatever the lady puts in the freezer! College students can't afford to be picky :)

riverc0il wrote

You sir, need to get a grip. I do not live in Boston. I live in central NH where I have lived for the past 9 years. Before that I lived in northeast VT for a few years. I haven't lived in the Boston area since 2005. In the other thread in which you also previously either misread or misunderstood what I wrote, I was talking about my past history.

But that is besides the point, where I live has no impact on my views on the world. You attack me like I am some kinda of climate change denier because I cited the FACT that many previously lost ski areas have come back. And many on the edge are resurging. I take offense to your implication.

But whatever, let's address my view on climate change. Civilization and the animal kingdom are screwed in the long run for sure, 100%. Species will continue to go extinct, those that survive will need to adapt to a different world. Less well off peoples of the world will really take it hard. I don't see any hope for the world coming together to fix it, it is only continuing to get worse. I doubt skiing will still be a thing by some point in the next century, at least not in the way it is now.

All that doesn't change the fact that more ski areas in New England have been reborn than lost in recent years (I believe I failed to mention Big Squaw in ME which also came back recently as a community area). Maybe that will change and after a short resurgence lots of places will begin failing. I don't doubt that trend will begin in my lifetime in New England.

You seem like a pretty cool dude and I am genuinely baffled and surprised by your two recent outbursts directed at me... both of which attacked me for views and opinions I do not hold.

It's tequila man. I guess booze brings out the asshole in me. That I apologize for. I try not to internet drunk but it happens. The climate thing struck a nerve because out here you literally see it happening in front of your face. It's a little scary honestly.

I love little ski areas and I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am or at least if the weather patterns continue as they are. My delivery was terrible and again I apologize.

Even though I act like an ass every now and then I always own it.

I agree that people's climate denialism and defense of climate-destroying policy is both scary and depressing as hell. And I didn't think your delivery was bad at all.

I just think it might have been better in the Off topic forum.

snoloco wrote

He had a big meltdown last spring and was banned because of it.  It was environmentally related.  http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Plunge-The-Catskill-Beast-td4079071.html#a4079115

Ah yes, I remember that one. I thought he made some valid points but then went too far and got emotional about it.

I have a sort of have inner conflict with my activities and environmental concerns. My desires and morals/ethics sometimes aren't in line with each other. Life is complicated.

mattchuck2 wrote

I agree that people's climate denialism and defense of climate-destroying policy is both scary and depressing as hell. And I didn't think your delivery was bad at all.

I just think it might have been better in the Off topic forum.

 

Nah, that's not my sober style. That's my drunken alter ego. I need to come up with a name for that guy.

raisingarizona wrote

 That's my alter drunken ego. I need to come up with a name for that guy.

Sure. Want some help ? OK ! Let's see .......

Nah, it's cool !

i stop posting once the second scotch is poured.  2014-2015 was a great year for hickory. fresh lines could be found for 3 weeks. i had 5 or 6 days there that year, which is hard to believe. something really enjoyable about terrain untouched by man made snow. hickory is just unsustainable. great mountain ,bad location. just think if that terrain was located somewhere in the lake effect snow belt.

sig wrote

i stop posting once the second scotch is poured.  2014-2015 was a great year for hickory. fresh lines could be found for 3 weeks. i had 5 or 6 days there that year, which is hard to believe. something really enjoyable about terrain untouched by man made snow. hickory is just unsustainable. great mountain ,bad location. just think if that terrain was located somewhere in the lake effect snow belt.

Hickory is not in a bad location. Big Tupper is in a bad location. Hickory needs snowmaking, just like every other Eastern ski area that wants to have regular visitors.

Hickory is actually in a great location as every Gore skier getting off exit 23 on the Northway knows about Hickory.

WOW.  This thread really took off.   I have a strong love of Hickory, not just because I ski there quite a bit, but also because of my family's history there...my uncle is an original shareholder from back in the day...my Dad learned to ski there on wooden skis with no edges (can't imagine what that was like).  I love that place...when I moved back from Colorado last November, I kept telling myself "well, at least I have Hickory close by."  

So, I am sad, to say the least, that the mountain will not be operating this winter. I am sad that the long-term viability of Hickory, and other places like it, is questionable.

There are many reasons for its struggle, some of which are touched upon in this thread.  The snow/lack of elevation/climate issues are real concerns, yes.  I will say, however, the mountain holds snow very well.  Its narrow trails face due north and see very little sunglight.  Even in a good snow year when the lifts are spinning, it is tough to put enough people on the mountain.

I have a vision for the mountain that I think would be more sustainable: as a multi-use, quasi-backcountry area (if such a term is appropriate).  Man-powered uphill access; promoted glade-clearing; snowshoeing and xc-skiing; summer mountain biking.   It's a niche mountain, but I think there is a sizeable demand for that niche.  There is a dearth of accessible backcountry in the region, but I think there are a lot of people who would be willing to pay some non-excessive annual fee to have access to a place that will often have untracked snow, great terrain with maintained  trails and glades, and a great atmosphere.  Lift-served skiing has its place, but it also takes more snow.  You could have 200 people skinning that place on one day (a hypothetical number)... it would eat up the snow nearly as much as 40 people skiing its lifts for the day, in terms of number of runs.  

I don't know how others feel, but I would gladly pay for an annual pass (let's call it $100-200) for that type of place, to know that I had the option of accessing great terrain where I can likely find untracked snow.   Just an idea, but I think it would bring some vitality to the place.

Yes!  

Count me in!

The problem with your plan is this:

Adrider83 wrote

There is a dearth of accessible backcountry in the region

There is plenty of backcountry in the region, plenty of backcountry in the state, and plenty of backcountry 1 or 2 states over.

There's so much backcountry that no effin way would I pay $100-$200 to ride some old ski area when there are plenty of old ski lines that can be accessed for free.

Do some research into APSA and RASTA. If you want to give your money to someone who is advocating for the very thing you describe, those would be good places to start.

Also, I don't think anyone would stop you from just showing up at Hickory (or Tupper, or Ascutney, etc.) after a big storm and skinning it for free. People on this forum have done that, and will probably do it this year.

mattchuck2 wrote

The problem with your plan is this:

Adrider83 wrote

There is a dearth of accessible backcountry in the region

There is plenty of backcountry in the region, plenty of backcountry in the state, and plenty of backcountry 1 or 2 states over.

There's so much backcountry that no effin way would I pay $100-$200 to ride some old ski area when there are plenty of old ski lines that can be accessed for free.

Do some research into APSA and RASTA. If you want to give your money to someone who is advocating for the very thing you describe, those would be good places to start.

Also, I don't think anyone would stop you from just showing up at Hickory (or Tupper, or Ascutney, etc.) after a big storm and skinning it for free. People on this forum have done that, and will probably do it this year.

I don't know, how accessible is the said back country? A small maintained area that you could drive right up to the base and get in a couple fast skinning laps might work if the other skiing has long approaches and is not maintained. Throw in a byob warming hut where friends can gather and tell tall tales and you have a fairly unique experience.  

raisingarizona wrote

I don't know, how accessible is the said back country?

Anywhere from "extremely accessible for anyone" to "difficult to access"

A small maintained area that you could drive right up to the base and get in a couple fast skinning laps might work if the other skiing has long approaches and is not maintained. Throw in a byob warming hut where friends can gather and tell tall tales and you have a fairly unique experience.

You seem to be describing the Ski Bowl, which accesses a good amount of backcountry (hopefully more, soon), and has an awesome, low maintenance yurt for Après drinks, or a lodge that sells food.

And its proximity to Gore means that I can ski lift served in the morning, then ski the Raymond Brook Trail in the afternoon. Or I can ski the Rabbit Pond trail directly from the ski area, or, ya know, other stuff in the area.



Point being, there's plenty of backcountry in the area, plenty more in the High Peaks, and plenty more in VT. It would be very difficult to run any kind of fee based business when one of the reasons people ski BC is that they don't want to pay to ski. Obviously, the exception is APSA and RASTA and other organizations that ask a small $30-$40 fee to do all sorts of maintenance work, advocacy, reconnaissance, land acquisition, and other stuff that is difficult for me to do from my cubicle. I have no problem giving them my money. But to devote $100-$200 a year to a single low elevation mountain that doesn't even have a lift? No thanks.

Matt-  didnt know you were a Clifton Park park guy?  I grew up in Vischer Ferry!

I understand what you're saying.  However, i think a lot of people are looking for an experience a little closer to a traditional mountain, while still earning their turns.  Its a different type of skiing, and a different overall experience, and i think that its where a lot of aspiring backcountry enthusiasts gravitate.  I dont want to compare it to Loveland Pass laps, but that comparison comes to mind.  Plus, you have the lodge, the communal aspect, different summer uses.   Heck, it could be a learning center, of sorts, for people newer to the sport.  Im not suggesting that everyone would do this, but i think it would draw interest, particularly if you're getting a year of access to a place for less than the cost of a day of skiing at many places.