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Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

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Harvey44

Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

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The VT SAR thread got me thinking again about charging for Search and Rescue.

I'm not exactly sure how NYSB and TGR forum member From_The_NEK does for a living, or what mountain he works for, or if he even works for a mountain... but he posted this on TGR and I thought it was interesting. It relates to HOW you'd decide whether to charge for rescue. Would like to hear your thoughts.

From_The_NEK wrote

For those that may have missed it earlier, I came up with a strategy for charging not charging for rescue last week. Once a few people get hit in the pocket to get rescued the word will get around pretty quick and fewer of these idiots will leave the resort boundaries.

Easy way to determine charge/no charge for rescue:
The State Police create a panel (Or group of specially trained officers) that is responsible for interviewing the rescuees immediately upon rescue. They have a standard checklist of questions that goes through some basic backcountry preparedness (I'm using "backcountry" loosely here).

Question 1: Describe you "backcountry skiing" plan.
1a. Where were you starting?
1b. What time were you starting?
1c. Where did you plan to exit the backcountry?
1d. What time did you plan to exit the backcountry?
1e. Did anyone else know what your plan was?

Question 2: Is anyone in your group familiar with this specific terrain and/or skied it before?
2a. Were they involved in creating the plan from Question 1?

Question 3: Do you have basic supplies to survive overnight in the backcountry (food, water, firestarter) and can you show them to me? (Must provide proof that a fire was started and food wrappers/containers if supplies were used prior to rescue.)

Question 4: Did you or a member of your group experience a major equipment failure or sustain an injury that made completing your plan from question 1 impossible?

The panel then works with the resort Ski Patrol to review the answers to question 1. If there is no plan or the plan does not make sense (e.g. you can’t get to point B from point A) = LARGE CHARGE. And end of analysis.

If they had a real plan and pass question 1, then the panel considers the answer to questions 2, 3, and 4.
If the interviewee answers “yes” to Question 2 and 3 they are not charged.
If they answer “no” to either 2 or 3 = SMALL CHARGE.

Answering “Yes” to question 4 wipes out any “no” answers for 2 and 3. This falls into “These guys had a plan. Although they could have been better prepared, they had some bad luck and needed help to get out.” = NO CHARGE

This solution does have a bit of bureaucracy to it. However it is expedited bureaucracy in that I feel the determination of financial charges can be decided in the lodge within an hour or two after the rescue is complete.
I'm not sure what the scale of financial charges that the State Police have but haven't been enforcing is.
However, I would set it at: Large Charge = $1000/person. Small Charge = $500/person. This likely wouldn't pay for the whole rescue process but it would help defray costs a bit.

NYSkiBlog • NY Ski Weather • NY Ski Directory • harvey44@nyskiblog.com

Face4Me

Re: Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

Harvey44 wrote

I'm not exactly sure how NYSB and TGR forum member From_The_NEK does for a living, or what mountain he works for, or if he even works for a mountain... but he posted this on TGR and I thought it was interesting. It relates to HOW you'd decide whether to charge for rescue. Would like to hear your thoughts.

How about a "pre-registration" process, where you would have to file a plan, in advance, detailing your planned activities. Failure to do so, or venturing into the back country on a plan that was not approved, would result in a charge for any rescue related costs.

Without going into details, I'm a member of an organization that requires us to file a trip plan for any trips we take. The details include who is going, the nature of the trip, depending upon the nature of the trip, you must specify which individual(s) have the required training certifications (first aid, CPR, etc), method of travel, etc, etc, etc.

Taking a trip without an approved plan can result in loss of liability coverage, etc.

It's all done online, and takes very little time to complete.

It's easy to be against something ... It's hard to be for something!

gorgonzola

Re: Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

i don't see all the need for that - just make 'em pay. if your talking resort skiiing put the language right on the ticket/release - you wanna play, you get lost, you pay!
the review board sounds reasonable for backcountry public land/parks. hhhmmmm maybe a new cottage industry, bc triple a!

mattchuck2

Re: Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

In reply to this post by Harvey44

First of all, question 2 is stupid. Why does somebody in the group need to have done the trip before? What happened to the idea of exploration? Did Columbus make sure he had some Vikings on board who had already been to North America?

Question 3 is dumb too. Every time you go beyond a ski area boundary, you need enough gear to last the night? What?!? So whenever I want to ski The Dip at Jay, I have to bring a backpack full of crap?

Also, it seems to me that if a "major equipment failure or injury" meant that you didn't need to pay anything, people would just rip their bindings out or complain of a mysterious knee injury when they got rescued.

I guess I'd be inclined to just make them pay, regardless of circumstance. Call for help = pay the bill for the help. That's how it works for plumbers, why shouldn't it work that way for rescue?

Of course, this kind of situation might lead to cut-rate rescue services that would be cheaper than DEC, State Police, etc. I have no problem with allowing the free market to operate in this case as long as these cut-rate services are licensed (a license that is revoked if they themselves ever have to call for help).

Ski = MC Squared

skimore

Re: Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

In reply to this post by Harvey44

Well then almost all of those people would have failed that survey. Majority of them had no intentions of a BC experience.They were just looking for fresh tracks and got turned around

campgottagopee

Re: Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

That whole thing seems cumbersome. If someone gets lost skiing OB at a resort there should be a fine/fee attached to that. If someone is planning a BC trip, I'd like to think they would use common sense and tell somebody where they are going and what time they should be back.
We do it all the time hunting---walk in camp and there will be a note, "up in swamp .... radio on channel 14 ..... back by dark". We've had to go look for peeps, but only cause they've fallen asleep.

skimore

Re: Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

In reply to this post by skimore

Should the bonehead who fell asleep with a lb of bacon in the frying pan get a bill from the fire dept?

mattchuck2

Re: Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

skimore wrote

Should the bonehead who fell asleep with a lb of bacon in the frying pan get a bill from the fire dept?

Some places are doing that... Remember the story a couple of years ago when that guy didn't pay his $50 a year "fire surcharge" or whatever and the fire department showed up to watch his house burn and protect the houses of his neighbors (who did pay the surcharge).

Seems to me that we're moving towards a society that claims "personal responsibility" as its number 1 priority. Charging people for the costs they accrued to rescue them is just one more step in that direction. The really funny part is going to be when they start offering options over the phone:

"We could pick you up right now in a helicopter, but that's going to cost you. Here are the prices to be picked up by snowmobile, dogsled, and search party. You can choose which is the most cost effective for you. Right now, we're running a special. Pay up front for 2 rescues, get the 3rd free."

Ski = MC Squared

skimore

Re: Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

that must have been an interesting scene

ScottyJack

Re: Charging for Rescue, One Man's Idea

In reply to this post by mattchuck2

mattchuck2 wrote

First of all, question 2 is stupid. Why does somebody in the group need to have done the trip before? What happened to the idea of exploration? Did Columbus make sure he had some Vikings on board who had already been to North America?

that's funny chit right there!!

Internet back country "expert" skiers can suck it!

You funny MC2!!

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