Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

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Re: Cunningham's Hudson River Rafting Co shut down by state court

witch hobble
They were still part of a guided trip, though it sounds as though little guidance was provided.  They were accompanying the rafts that had the guides in them, and should have been given a thorough talk up and watched over closely.  This is not unusual on some commercially run rivers, but certainly uncommon on the Hudson Gorge. Some companies have been known to take a ducky along on a low water trip, inflate it at lunch, and let various customers try it out, particularly in the easy water towards the end of the trip.  For returning guests with a sense of adventure and a sense of humor (double duckies are known as "divorce boats" many places) this could potentially be a way to keep them coming back instead of searching out a more advanced rafting trip or deciding to go bungee jumping or some other adventure tourist activity.  

Are we sure this didn't happen on the Sacandaga?  No mention of the river name is given in the affadavit.  Turning "never evers" loose on a 14 mile Gorge trip, starting with the Indian River, in a double ducky? = DUMB! 

gorgonzola and camp, if outfitters only took people who knew what they were doing and were capable of making informed decisions about whitewater rapids, there wouldn't be much of an industry.
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Re: Cunningham's Hudson River Rafting Co shut down by state court

witch hobble
I missed the three and a half hours part.  No way that was the Sacandaga.  One of their Riparius to the Glen trips???

I guess I really want to believe that no outfitter would give two inexperienced rafters a double ducky on the Indian/Hudson Gorge and then immediately lose sight of them.
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Re: Cunningham's Hudson River Rafting Co shut down by state court

tBatt
witch hobble wrote
I missed the three and a half hours part.  No way that was the Sacandaga.  One of their Riparius to the Glen trips???

I guess I really want to believe that no outfitter would give two inexperienced rafters a double ducky on the Indian/Hudson Gorge and then immediately lose sight of them.
It was on the Gorge. I had to help recover the boats the next trip. Cunningham called our shop and said he needed to borrow some of our "smarter guides for carnage recovery". The first raft was pulled off river right (WTF?!) just before guides hole. The first ducky (maybe there were two here? memory was a bit fuzzy on this) was at the confluence where the trails from the Gooley club come in, and we found a second boat hung up on the rocks to the right of the island just past Bus Stop.

My guess is that the duckys put in first and they got pushed out into the current right away. Since they were behind the bubble, My guess is that the rafts got stuck on something that is easy for a ducky to cruise right through.

RE: guiding duckys - Generally you'll have one or two people in the ducky and then a guide (or two, one lead and one sweep, depending on the size of the crew) in a kayak to accompany them. The line you take in a kayak/ducky isn't always the same as the line you would take in a raft. Rafts can get through hydraulics that a ducky wouldn't (without much more work/experience).

RE: Getting to the road from the Ottawa - sounds like there is a road right next to the river that they shuttle back up after the trip. I would still think that they would pick you up rather than leaving you on the road, but at least that's a feasible worst-case scenario. On the Gorge, the nearest road is about 3 miles once you're off the Indian. If you get out to river left on the Indian, the road is right there. If you get out river right, you have to either wait for the river to drop before you cross (still sketchy in many spots), or you're hiking all the way up the shore, past Lake Abanakee to get to the road.

Generally there will be a designated lead boat and a designated sweep boat. They are always first/last, respectively, through the rapids. Sweep being there to pick up the scraps. If it's over 4 feet or so, most companies will send down a kayaker as a safety boater. Much easier to get around in to help swimmers, tell them where to go, give them a tow or something to hold on to. Just don't panic and flip them. If they tell you to let go, let go!
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Re: Cunningham's Hudson River Rafting Co shut down by state court

Harvey
Administrator
This post was updated on .
I also wondered why the rafters got back in the ducky after swamping so quickly. Seems like your spidey sense should be tingling in that situation. Where is the guide? Why am I alone on a guided rafting trip in a remote area?

But...I have to agree with the idea that the industry has to cater to those without experience. The article even said that the rafters who went in the ducky were asked if they had experience, and they said no.  That must have led them to believe it would be ok.

I had an experience with a guide in the gorge who verbally abused me for my lack of experience. I didn't get it. If everyone KNOWS what they are doing then your job disappears.  I don't understand any business model that exhibits disdain for customers. And when part of your job is to protect life... unreal.

I did a guided hut-to-hut trip in Summit County Colorado. Man those guys really got it.  Friendly, professional, intense focus on safety, respect.  A huge tips for the guides. Huge.

More on this story:

http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2012/10/judge-rules-against-rafting-company.html
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Cunningham's Hudson River Rafting Co shut down by state court

witch hobble
In reply to this post by tBatt
tBatt wrote
 The first raft was pulled off river right (WTF?!) just before guides hole. The first ducky (maybe there were two here? memory was a bit fuzzy on this) was at the confluence where the trails from the Gooley club come in, and we found a second boat hung up on the rocks to the right of the island just past Bus Stop.

 
 Holy shit!
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Re: Cunningham's Hudson River Rafting Co shut down by state court

adkskier
AP Article appeared in "Newsday" earlier this week:

  ALBANY, N.Y. - (AP) -- New York kept the owner of Hudson River Rafting Co. on its list of 2,500 licensed outdoor guides, despite two charges against him of reckless endangerment and a dozen other tickets citing his guides with unlicensed whitewater trips over the past five years.

That's because New York -- unlike many states, the National Park Service and the U.S. Forest Service -- regulates the guides themselves, not the companies. That focus, critics say, allows companies to continue operating even when their guides have endangered any of the thousands of outdoors-lovers who engage their services.

In addition, New York rarely revokes the licenses of guides.

In one deadly case this fall, a Columbus, Ohio, woman drowned on one of the company's Adirondack whitewater trips headed by licensed guide Rory Fay, 37. Fay was charged with criminally negligent homicide, accused of rafting drunk when he and client Tamara Blake, 53, were thrown into the rapids of the Indian River on Sept. 27. Her boyfriend was also on the boat.

Meanwhile, owner Patrick Cunningham again faces reckless endangerment charges after he allegedly left to fend for themselves a raft of clients he was personally guiding this spring. The New York attorney general has since shut down his rafting business, and the state subsequently suspended Cunningham's and Fay's guide licenses.

On a whitewater trip just a month earlier, on Aug. 26, 2012, two Hudson River Rafting clients were put into an inflatable kayak when its guided rafts were full. They capsized twice in 15 minutes.

"I began hitting rock after rock in the rapids and suffered significant bruising and cuts to my legs," said Richard Belson in a court affidavit.
"At one point I was dragged under the water by the current and had great difficulty getting back to the surface."

Cunningham and his lawyer Jason Britt have challenged the court-ordered shutdown but declined several requests to discuss the case. An early Adirondack rafting guide, he has taken thousands of clients down the Hudson over three decades. He and Fay denied the criminal charges.
Whitewater kayakers often ride the rapids on their own, without guides.

Blake drowned despite wearing a flotation vest and helmet.

In other parts of the U.S., authorities focus on the companies, not the individual guides, according to David Brown, executive director of the American Outdoor Association in Knoxville, Tenn. He predicted New York will change its approach now.

"(New York) regulated the guides, not the companies," Brown said. "The guide can make a mistake. The company can continue to operate. That's a unique situation."

A survey by the Outdoor Foundation showed 3.8 million Americans went rafting in 2011. As many as 5,000 U.S. outfitters provide guide services around the country, ranging from day hikes to weekslong wilderness adventures. Brown said recurring problems at guide services elsewhere would trigger complaints from other outfitters who don't want the shared black eye.

At San Juan Mountain Guides in Colorado, which has special permits to operate in several national forests and parks, owner and director Nate Disser said that there's no state guide certification like New York's, and that the company bears the responsibility for what they do.

"We have to prove our guides meet some sort of minimum standard" to federal authorities, he said. The company has its own manuals and training and is credentialed by the American Mountain Guides Association.

"Look for guides or services that have both experience and credentials.
Been there and done that, so to speak," Disser advised. His company requires clients to sign forms assuming inherent and uncontrollable risks like bad weather, lightning or rock and ice falls, but provides the technical expertise to manage that risk, he said.

Brown and several New York outfitters familiar with the Hudson River rafting case suggested ways for clients to check out guides beyond government permits, including the Internet. On sites with customer reviews, they said, recurrent complaints should be a red flag, though any service is likely to have one or two disgruntled customers.

TripAdvisor recently showed 28 reviews of Hudson River Rafting Co., with nine writers saying their trip was excellent and 17 saying theirs was terrible. Four comments weren't posted until after the drowning.

Adirondack guides said their state credential, at best, is a starting point.

"My honest opinion, as an outfitter, is word of mouth," said Peter Burns, owner of Beaver Brook Outfitters, another rafting company that runs trips in New York's north country. "Get a recommendation from someone."

Cunningham's issues were known among rafters and others in the Adirondacks. He split from the Hudson River Professional Outfitters Association in a 2010 disagreement over whether licensed guides had to be onboard rafts. State Department of Environmental Conservation records showed Hudson River Rafting staff were ticketed a dozen times from 2007 to 2010 for guiding clients without valid licenses.

Misdemeanor charges against Cunningham for reckless endangerment were conditionally adjourned by a judge, but a prosecutor reopened the case this year. Those charges in 2010 stemmed from inexperienced clients who capsized in an inflatable kayak and young campers allegedly rafted without sufficient guides.

New York's DEC revoked no guide licenses in the past year, while receiving five complaints, spokeswoman Lisa King said. Cunningham's and Fay's licenses will be revoked if it's determined they broke applicable law, she said.

Asked why Cunningham kept his license through years of trouble, the agency didn't reply.

"Most of your reputable guides belong to professional organizations,"
said Sonny Young, whose Adirondack Foothills guide service out of Saranac Lake includes hunting, fishing and canoeing. An officer of the New York State Outdoor Guides Association, he said that group has a code of ethics that includes truth in advertising and obeying the laws and game limits.

"With guides that are professional, they'll ask you to sign a waiver, a medical release form because they want to know what your health conditions are, and they want you to know there are inherent dangers of going into the field," he said.

"Anybody who just takes your money at the trailhead, without some kind of safety talk, who doesn't let you know they're insured, that may be suspicious."

Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
I Think, Therefore I Ski
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Re: Woman drowned Thursday during Hudson River rafting trip

Michaeltokyo
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

Harvey
Administrator
There must be more to the story than meets the eye. What is the penalty range for criminally negligent homicide?
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

Michaeltokyo
This post was updated on .
Mr. Fey pleaded guilty to three counts against him: Criminally Negligent Homicide is a Class E Felony Homicide charge which has maximum 4 year sentence; the aggravated unlicensed operation; and driving while intoxicated. It is interesting that the homicide charge resulted in a lighter penalty than the DWI offence.

Perhaps the court considered the inherent risk of drowning as part of the activity of whitewater rafting a class III-IV river?  Or perhaps the prosecutor was unsure of trying the case for some reason?  

It should be noted that negligent homicide is considered a form of involuntary manslaughter resulting from extreme carelessness.
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

Adk Jeff
I agree with you Mike - it's strange (and sad) that the DWI penalty is heavier than the manslaughter penalty.  Another part of the case that strikes me is Cunningham's (apparent) lack of knowledge that his employee (Fay) did not have a valid driver's license.  For a business that requires employees to drive a company-owned vehicle with customers as passengers, that's inexcusable.  I've got to beleive that the victim's lawyers are going to have a field day with Cunningham (or his insurance company), assuming that there will be a civil suit.
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

Harvey
Administrator
One of the moms that we walk to school with is a lawyer.  That girl from Melrose Place who killed someone while DWI lives in our town and she just got sentenced to 5-10.  I told her the story about Fay, and asked her why the penalties would be so different.

She said that motor vehicle cases are treated more severely than other forms of criminally negligent homicide. She said that the woman's choice to go rafting is considered differently from an assumed risk perspective, than someone who is out driving.  Driving is part of life and rafting is optional.

Not sure how legit that is, but that's what she said.
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

Harvey
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http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2013/01/cunningham-trial-rafting-customer-tells-of-scary-trip.html
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

Spongeworthy
He was just acquitted

http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2013/01/cunningham-acquitted-in-rafting-case.html
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." Oscar Gamble
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

Benny Profane
Was that a jury trial?
funny like a clown
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

Harvey
Administrator
From Adirondack Almanack, full story linked below:

A state Supreme Court judge has ruled that Hudson River Rafting Company must post a $50,000 performance bond to stay in business and must pay $12,000 in fines for violations of the law.

However, Justice Richard Giardino refused the state’s request to shut down the rafting company for good. He also dismissed the state’s claim that the company had engaged in false advertising by billing its rafting trips as safe.

In a May 15 decision, Giardino noted that Patrick Cunningham, the owner, “was a pioneer in the industry and … has provided guided river excursions with rafts, kayaks and canoes for over thirty years.” During that time, the court added, Cunningham and his employees “have successfully guided thousands of customers down various rivers without incident.”


http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2013/05/hudson-river-rafting-wins-partial-victory.html
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

Benny Profane
Well, how did the Roman's say it? Caveat emptor?

Always glad to see that the government is looking out for my safety. I guess they have bigger fish to fry.
funny like a clown
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

Noah John
Benny Profane wrote
Always glad to see that the government is looking out for my safety. I guess they have bigger fish to fry.
I don't understand that comment.  The State tried to close it down; it wasn't "frying bigger fish".
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

DackerDan
Pat is a very nice person and a fixture in North Creek. It is amazing they did not pull his license though and shut him down. North Country Justice is very local.
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

TomCat
I'm a nice person and I'd bet I couldnt get out of a speeding ticket, much less something serious.

Tom
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Re: Woman drowned during Hudson River rafting trip

campgottagopee
In reply to this post by DackerDan
DackerDan wrote
Pat is a very nice person and a fixture in North Creek. It is amazing they did not pull his license though and shut him down. North Country Justice is very local.

Agree, I know Pat and think he's a good dude. In fact, my mom went to high school with him. Hopefully something good will come out of this to prevent another tragedy.
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