220 vs 110 Electric: Cost to Heat

I'm considering running a low level of heat in our cabin in the coldest part of winter.  It would be easier on the building, faster to heat and easier on an electronic devices like our weather station and (cough) future additions.

I could probably put 110 in now, while 220 would require burying a wire and would probably have to wait.

I have seen conflicting information. Is it cheaper to use 220 or not?

Wattage is wattage no matter how you cut it.  220 only allows for more potential power on smaller wires because it is at higher "pressure".  The work is still the same.  It won't be any cheaper, you will just be able to heat faster because there is more potential power there.  Now, at 220v you can install smaller wire which can be beneficial.  Also, odds are if you only have one leg of service at your place you will quickly run out of power in your cabin by running heat.

We've got two 15 amp services in the cabin. Our bathroom (a separate building where we dream we will eventually put a house) has a 200 amp service and those two 15s are lines that come off that panel and run underground to the cabin.

It's really just about enough.  We can run two space heaters off them which we only do when we arrive and are unpacking and cranking up the woodstove.

Occasionally we run one during the day letting the stove go out (to empty ash) or at night if it's not really that cold and there is a lot of residual heat from the woodstove.

My ideal is to replace one of the space heaters with something mounted in the wall, to save floor space and hopefully create a safer setup to leave on heater on while we are gone.  If we can keep interior temps above zero we can prolong the life of some electronics we are considering.

The only thing we run are two space heaters, lights and a laptop. Occasionally a vacuum cleaner. If I forget and run that in the same circuit with a space heater we trip the breaker.

Harvey wrote

We've got two 15 amp services in the cabin. Our bathroom (a separate building where we dream we will eventually put a house) has a 200 amp service and those two 15s are lines that come off that panel and run underground to the cabin.

It's really just about enough.  We can run two space heaters off them which we only do when we arrive and are unpacking and cranking up the woodstove.

Occasionally we run one during the day letting the stove go out (to empty ash) or at night if it's not really that cold and there is a lot of residual heat from the woodstove.

My ideal is to replace one of the space heaters with something mounted in the way, to save floor space and hopefully create a safer setup to leave on heater on while we are gone.  If we can keep interior temps above zero we can prolong the life of some electronics we are considering.

The only thing we run are two space heaters, lights and a laptop. Occasionally a vacuum cleaner. If I forget and run that in the same circuit with a space heater we trip the breaker.

The savings are minimal. What 220v does is split the load between 2 hot legs, meaning the load (amps) is split in half for each leg, reducing the heating of the cable and any potential fire damage.

What concerns me is your statement that you have two 15 amp services in the cabin. Are those services in subpanels or are they direct cable feeds from the 200 amp service in your separate building? If it's the latter, fine (assuming outdoor cable was used), but if it's the former, it's important that the neutral and grounding bars are not bonded. While neutral and grounding bars are properly connected together in the main panel, they must be isolated in a subpanel. It's easy to see: if the white neutrals and the bare ground wires are connected to the same grounding bar in the subpanel, that's not good. If you see that, or if you have trouble following this, it's time to call a licensed electrician.

I'm not an electrician but the guy who did it was one, although I never actually asked to see his license. They are lines run from the main panel.  I always wondered why we didn't have a subpanel.

You've got me nervous enough to have another electrician look at it.  The guy who did the work no longer works in the area, so it's probably time I get one. Recommendations in North Creek or North River welcome.

EDIT: I meant to say mounted in the "wall" above not "way."

Have you looked into getting propane?  
Most companies will lease tanks and while it's not the cheapest method of heating, it'll sure beat electric big time.

You could buy one of those wall mount heaters and be good to go with very minimal costs, plus when power's out..

Last winter we switched to propane heat from electric and it's been fantastic, pretty much heat our whole place (very small, but I know people who heat 13-1400sq ft with just a ventless fireplace and some type of fan).  Not sure if you guys have a co-op in in the north country, but down here Galway co op is great, they contract Ferrell gas and we've had no issues at good prices

Harvey wrote

I'm not an electrician but the guy who did it was one, although I never actually asked to see his license. They are lines run from the main panel.  I always wondered why we didn't have a subpanel.

You've got me nervous enough to have another electrician look at it.  The guy who did the work no longer works in the area, so it's probably time I get one. Recommendations in North Creek or North River welcome.

EDIT: I meant to say mounted in the "wall" above not "way."

If you don't have a subpanel you've got nothing to worry about.  He was pointing out that if the subpanel was wired incorrectly you should have it addressed.  You can't (shouldn't) bond the neutral and the ground in the subpanel.  Neutral wires are white and ground is generally bare copper so it's easy to tell when you open the subpanel if your electrician did something funky but if the two 15 amp wires just go directly to outlets or hard wired appliances there's no issue.

We've considered propane. We don't want a road (driveway) that reach the cabin.  It will ultimately be an outbuilding for the main house and we don't want to spend the money for something "temporary" or add the visual impact.

We have propane in the bathroom and it is incredibly cheap. The building is well insulated and very small. The bill for the last twelve months for heat and hotwater was $150.

The electric is only going to be set to keep the temperature inside above zero. Or maybe 20 degrees. Just enough to keep our electronics from breaking.  Heat will continue to be done with wood.  We don't use even a cord a year.

Still going to have the electric checked out.

110 will be fine until you get to the point you want to put a dryer in. Which from the sound of it is a long long way down the road.  

Harvey wrote

Still going to have the electric checked out.

You mean you're not going to rely upon some bullshit from an anonymous jerk on the internet?  Why not?  I thought the internet was Christmas and the 4th of July all balled up in one and was keeping the World safe for Democracy?  After all, it was good enough to wreck Snyderman's career and add to the frenzy/scare about Ebola.  Remember two weeks ago when you were pimping that story?  2 weeks is like a decade in internet time.  Fear of Ebola; That's soooo five minutes ago.

Harvey,

Talk to John @ Gore Electric by B&W.

PeeTex wrote

Harvey,

Talk to John @ Gore Electric by B&W.

He's a great guy. Unfortunately he's traveling this week, but it's quite possible he'll be part of the solution.

Before we moved here full time we where in the weekend cabin stage though not quite as rustic as you are going.  Our first purchase was a VT Castings Woodstock that runs on propane.  Put a thermostat on the wall it has a blower fan that uses very little electric.  The key is that it has a low voltage ignition system so you still have heat when the power is out.  If you sign a LT contract with Ameriigas they will provide you a galvanized propane tank which you bury in the yard and run an underground line to the house.

Once you get there go with propane range, oven, more heat , dryer when chez Harv grows.  Don't forget a line for you gas grill too.  This is much lower cost long term because heating with electric is crazy expensive.

Most of you guys sound like Sno talking about powder !! The answer is you can run more wattage at higher voltage ! It's not cheaper . Check out OHM'S Law ..  You should use a licensed electrician which sounds like your talking too .. Really you should get a permit.So it gets INSPECTED so then you know it's done right and to code (National Electrical code)  now you can sleep

 I am a licensed Electrician, that's what I do. Electric heat if installed correctly and your house is well insulated and you use hydronic  heaters, electric heat is a good option. Harv  if there is a conduit buried between your main panel and house your upgrade could be simple. Always hire an Electrician ,not a handyman to do your electrical work.
    Been stripping copper all weekend  to fund a possible ski road trip North next weekend.

Would conduit be flexible or solid like pvc? I'm pretty certain there is no conduit.  The property is very ledgy, so a rigid conduit would be problematic.

 If conduit was installed it most likely been pvc , in could lay in an uneven rocky ditch easily. Look at where the wires comes out of the ground and see if you see the conduit. If you do shake the wire to see if it moves a little . If it moves in the conduit then it is probably piped not just sleeved.  If there is no conduit and the wires look gray, then it probably direct burial uf wire.
   I used to drive a service van years ago. Every other Spring I would go on  a Service call where the direct burial wire was damaged by the frost.

Definitely talk with an electrician. I don't think many space heater are intended to be left on for multiple weeks running continuously. I may be wrong on this but an electrician would know for sure.

For propane I would stay away from any "vent free" appliance since your enclosed space is small and tight.

tom

  I know of a couple of Eden pure style generic heaters that caused fires.  Heaters using small gauge extension cords cause a lot of fires. Any hardwired heaters can be run an unlimited time!

The whole idea of using 220 vs 110 is to power a larger device (heater) that has less on time than a smaller device that stays on to keep up. Think central air vs a window unit air conditioner.