Advanced ski clinics

tjf1967 wrote

Naked Boobs.

BOOM---i'm in

I think an advanced weekly clinic say for 3 hours each Saturday for 6-8 weeks would be awesome.  Gore does have something like that called secret society of skiers (for whatever reason) but it meets every thursday which isn't practical for most people who are still working.  From what I hear the coaching is awesome with most of it done on the lifts and lots of skiing (at least for the advanced group).

The key here I think is the "advanced" market not "expert".  I am sure even experts could use some coaching but it is harder to convince those folks.  Hell Tiger and Vonn have coaches:)

Not sure what will get more people in the door.  I know for me this year my goal was two fold.  One get comfortable enough to get into the trees and get better so that I can keep up with my 4 year old as she progresses.  The glades clinic clicked for me plus I have done multiple other lessons this year.  Up until last year I wasn't interested in taking the time either.  I did master the mountain clinic last year and saw a significant improvement so I was sold on the value.  At this point I have skied all but the steepest on the map glades and a few off the map ones.  I feel like I get better on every run through.  I am sure I will be back for another clinic and or lessons next year.

I think the skill specific clinics at gore are really good and pretty successful in terms of the numbers of people who sign up.  I would love to see a recurring weekend clinic with the same coaches/group.  I think the key - especially for advanced skiers is minimal coaching on trail and maximum skiing.  Coaching on the lifts.  I've found that small observations/tweaks have been very effective for me.  Some instructors love to hear themselves talk which is a huge turnoff - especially if its happening on trail.

I've learned something about skiing or teaching at every clinic I've ever done - PSIA clinics, Instructor training clinics, etc. I thought I was a pretty awesome skier when I came out of college, but when I started working as an instructor, I realized I wasn't. I was doing a lot of things that were inefficient, weird, and dumb. I'm a lot better now (both tele and alpine), but I can definitely still improve (right now I'm working on groomed snow issues - stronger inside half, upper body down the hill more, steering a round turn using the lower body - tricky in alpine, REALLY tricky in tele).

That being said, I don't spend my money on clinics (except for the ones I have to do to maintain my PSIA certification). If I  wasn't an instructor, and didn't do all the training that that entails, I'd be more likely to do an MoM (Master of the Mountain) type thing than a weekly clinic, but I'm not sure I'd do that either (although I would be tempted by the ridiculously good deal those weekend programs are for passholders - I mean, free beer at the end. What more do you want?). In general, I think of it like my Golf game. I'm at a point where I'm good enough to know what I'm doing wrong when I do it. I'm sure a clinic would help, but I'd rather just go out and work out the kinks myself.

Being out west these last few days, I realized I would spend money on a mountain tour/"ski tips on the lift rides" package with some hard charging local dude. But it would have to be cheap - like, $50 for 2 hours, with lift line cutting priveleges. Telluride offered free mountain tours, but they only were allowed to go up to blue, and the assembled group looked like it would have trouble with those, so my brother and I just picked the leader's brain for a little bit and skied off.

Harvey44 wrote

I'm kinda with some of these other guys.  I'm sure I could REALLY benefit from some instruction. I've never had a lesson and my bad habits run deep. (Paging MC2).

Your bad habits aren't too bad, Harv. you just need more discipline in your upper body and more turning power out of your lower body. Both are easily fixable. You up this weekend?

Also, never underestimate the power of video. You might think you're great, but if you see yourself on video, you might have some different thoughts. Or, you might think you're awful, and then see yourself on video, and all of a sudden, you look a lot better. It's also good for picking out specific things in your turns that are causing problems, inefficiencies, etc.

My advice to everyone as the season winds down is to have a friend take some video of your skiing so you can see exactly what's going on. Do it now, after you've been skiing all season and you're at your physical and technical peak. And if you want, you can even post the vids up in the summer so we can have something to talk about while we wait for snow (thios option is only for the bold).

I concur with Harv too.  After teaching for so many consequtive years, it was totally refreshing to freeski with my family this season.   My time is very limited with high pressure job and a 4+ hr ride upto Gore every weekend.  That said, I love the aspects of being taught to.  You can't see what you're doing unless you get yourself on video.   Having a GOOD instructor that 1., cares and 2., understands movement analysis is critical to picking up the little things.  

I would be curious to know if anyone on NYSB took the Gore tele clinics offered earlier this month and in Feb?  Mark Lascek who I believe organized the clinics is one of the best tele instructors I have had the privilige to ski with and Gore is lucky to have him.  I however chose skiing with the family over the clinic.  

What would be cool is a clinic that was not part of the mountain's ski school and priced right.  Even if it was for a say, 2 hours.  I would pay someone's time to receive coaching if they gave  me valuable feedback and took me in appropriate terrain to learn the skills being presented. I know that now I'm introducing liability, insurance and all the things the mountain has to it's advantage.  So, I guess I am saying let the mountain offer 2 hr "high level" clinics throughout the season on a specific skill/tactic/terrain once a weekend and price it right.

An advanced clinic is very appealing to me.  I've never taken a lesson or had any formal instruction / coaching.  If I've gotten any better over the past 20 years that I've been telemarking, it's been by skiing with other strong telemarkers (and alpiners).  I guess I've flipped through Paul Parker's Free Heel Skiing and Mike and Allen's Really Cool Telemark Tips, so I got that going for me.  I'm comfortable on just about all terrain and in all snow conditions, but I'm certain there are a hundred things I could do to improve my technique and I know I'd benefit from some instruction or coaching.

Time is my major barrier for doing a clinic.  Almost all of my ski time is with my family.  I guess they could somehow survive without me, although I used all of my good husband / good dad points on my Big Sky trip a few weeks ago.  Maybe something like a Sunday afternoon at Gore could work for me, or mid-week evenings at West (non-challenging terrain, but often challenging conditions, LOL) or Willard.  I think a multi-session program would provide the most gains for me.

Matt, very interesting idea about posting videos.  I'm happy to get ripped to pieces, so give the word and I'll volunteer to go first to get the ball rolling.  I've already got a vid my wife shot that reveals some weaknesses.  Or, at least I wish I looked a lot more awesome in it.

telerider wrote

What would be cool is a (telemark) clinic that was not part of the mountain's ski school and priced right.

NATO offers a bunch of telemark instructional workshops all over the Northeast, on-piste and off.  I've never done any of their workshops, but I bet the 3-day Gulf of Slides or Chic Chocs camps would be awesome.  

mattchuck2 wrote

I mean, free beer at the end. What more do you want?).

tjf1967 wrote
Naked Boobs.

Coach Z wrote

I'm most interested what it would take to get you all in a clinic.

A shotgun.

(Or naked boobs)

Danzilla had a good point about the same coach.  Using the same coach really helps move the group because then the coach does not need to do extensive movement analysis since he / she has seen the skier and their progress over the course of the series.  

Also good point about the target should be advanced and not experts.

mattchuck2 wrote

 you can even post the vids up in the summer so we can have something to talk about while we wait for snow (thios option is only for the bold).

How many ski instructors does it take to screw in a lightbulb...

25
1 to actually screw it in.
24 to analyze the turns...

DackerDan wrote

mattchuck2 wrote

 you can even post the vids up in the summer so we can have something to talk about while we wait for snow (thios option is only for the bold).

How many ski instructors does it take to screw in a lightbulb...

25
1 to actually screw it in.
24 to analyze the turns...

I always love that one :)

Hey Coach, I didn't mean nothin' with my wise-ass remark.  I probably wouldn't take a clinic though because I don't need to pay somebody just to be told I suck - I already know I suck!

Noah John wrote

Hey Coach, I didn't mean nothin' with my wise-ass remark.  I probably wouldn't take a clinic though because I don't need to pay somebody just to be told I suck - I already know I suck!

Anybody ski jumping in a mawashi does not need any help from an instructor.

x10003q wrote

Noah John wrote

Hey Coach, I didn't mean nothin' with my wise-ass remark.  I probably wouldn't take a clinic though because I don't need to pay somebody just to be told I suck - I already know I suck!

Anybody ski jumping in a mawashi does not need any help from an instructor.

That's an old pic.  I was fit back then.

Noah John wrote

x10003q wrote

Noah John wrote

Hey Coach, I didn't mean nothin' with my wise-ass remark.  I probably wouldn't take a clinic though because I don't need to pay somebody just to be told I suck - I already know I suck!

Anybody ski jumping in a mawashi does not need any help from an instructor.

That's an old pic.  I was fit back then.

You're much taller in person too---that pix does you no justice

I guess there's a clear consensus that most high-level skiers -- I assume that means "expert" rather than "advanced" -- aren't interested in instruction and I get that. Since I don't fall into the expert bucket -- and having started skiing at age 37, there's a pretty good chance that I'll probably never reach that level -- I'd be more than willing to take a lesson, maybe once a month. I skied with an instructor at Belleayre last weekend and learned a ton. The main issue for me is cost.

Harvey wrote "
No drinks, none of that other stuff would entice me. Actually as much as I loathe the whole idea of Stratton's cheater pass, I'd be more tempted to take a lesson if I could get out on the mountain at say 7am, 90 mins before everyone else.

I concur. Getting out early would be a BIG draw for me. I need to take a lesson. I have been telling myself for years but as soon as I get to the hill I just want to ski. An early start would be nice because I could practice what I learned when the lifts open for the day. The last lesson I took, I'm embarrased to say, was in the 90's out at Snow King WY. It is an very steep local hill in Jackson. The ski school, at the time, was run by Bill Briggs (first descent of Grand Teton) and they really focused on techniques for steep terrain. Right now I have so many years of little bad habits that have accumulated I just need someone to tell me what to do to undo them!
 

One thing that might draw extra people in for instruction would be "private" lessons where there is a flat rate fit an hour of instruction. If I'm willing to pay $70 for an hour, why charge extra if my buddy wants to tag along.

I think having the meeting location at the summit would be nicer for advanced instruction.

I've done master the mountain a few times and thought it was helpful. Cost and time keep me from signing up again.

Tom

brn2skifst wrote

Harvey wrote " Getting out early would be a BIG draw for me.

I bet it would be easy to arrange an early morning private lesson at any mountain that opens the lifts early. For example, Windham does 8am clinics every weekend day for instructors, and it sometimes allows the race program to train at 7am. Just because they don't show that stuff to the public on the website doesn't mean you can't negotiate it with the ski school director. If I were looking for high level training, I'd organize my own group of 5 or 6 skiers with similar goals and put together a season long series of 10 or 12 or more dates, and then pitch it to one or more local mountains. I wouldn't try to get a price discount off the ordinary rate for season long programs, but I would insist on a top coach, at least a full cert or a DCL, and I wouldn't be shy about insisting on replacing him/her if his performance was substandard. Bringing your own group to the mountain to spend >$1000 gives you a lot of leverage with management. mm