Advanced ski clinics

PSIA has been doing a season long series on how to develop more high level ski school business and I thought this would be an interesting question to pose to the NYSB readership.  Advanced customers make up a very small fraction of snow sport school business.  Instructors themselve take way more clinics then the general public does.  I spent 10% of my ski days this year in clinics and that percentage is much higher for those that still are in the certification process or training to make Education Staff.  I'm guessing that for our readership that are not instructors / coaches that percentage is 0 to 1% at most.

When is the last time you have taken a lesson?
Seems like a confessional question - Forgive me Coach its been 5 years since my last clinic...  Go and ski better my son...

What would entice you to take a clinic or series of clinics?

Would you prefer a series of say every other Saturday over a weekend or day.  Series are great since with same coach you can make significant season long progress.

How would it need to be priced?

What features would you like to see in it?  

Would a social (Happy) hour with adult beverages post clinic make it more attractive?

Would a special topic make it more appealing - race, trees, bumps,  conditions du jour (seems like there was lots in interest in bump related instruction in my blog posts)

What about video - would that help make it more meaningful?

I would surmise most of the high level skiers would just rather ski

skimore wrote

I would surmise most of the high level skiers would just rather ski

I agree. The only way I would really be down with a lesson or clinic would be on terrain outside of my comfort zone in an area I wasn't familiar with. For example, Montana backcountry. Even then, I think it'd be more of a guide thing...

IMHO I would rather work with an instructor on a 1 - 1 basis, not as a clinic. I insist on a level 3 or examiner level instructor, once I was lucky enough to work with a member of the demo team. I use to do a private once per year but have been too busy the last few years. I am due for a private clinic because I have a specific move I want to perfect, however it is getting late in the year. For the most part, good skiers are happy with where they are at and would rather spend their time having fun, why pay for a lift ticket and a lesson? I don't happen to agree, a little guidance every now and then is like tuning your skis.

blue mt does a pretty good job with these, offering excellent race, bump, and womens workshop clinics. definately a social aspect to all of them. some of the ladies have been doing them for a gazillion years just to ski with each other.
a few friends an i did 3 years or so of the race clinic a few years ago - basically as a way just to bash slalom gates for a few hours and have a few beers. the program was in transition - started out very informal with maybe 1/3 drills and 2/3 in course with critique. laid back, helpful and a ton of fun. as it started to become more structured the ratio flipped and it really wasn't what our group was looking for. some folks were very happy with the changes, i believe the numbers stayed about the same just a different group of people.
the mogul clinic has a new director this year and is doing a great job. a friend did it and can't say enough good things - and he's ripping in the bumps! great advertising as a few more guys have been talking about doing it next year.
i think the clinincs are a great way to have fun and improve your skiing. very interesting to watch  people in them - most of us think were better dkiers than we really are!

Hi Goronzola:

When you say Blue Mtn, are you talking about Blue Mountain in Ontario?  

If so I did not see any moguls classes.  If there are can you post a link as I would be very interested in that.  Blue is only 1hr 45min door to door for me.  Next year we plan to rent a cottage for the winter and this would definitely be something I would be interested in.  

Claude

DackerDan wrote

For the most part, good skiers are happy with where they are at and would rather spend their time having fun, why pay for a lift ticket and a lesson? I don't happen to agree, a little guidance every now and then is like tuning your skis.

+1

Its so easy to pick up a bad habit or make a change you are not aware of that limits your skiing.  After my boots had to be replaced due the fire I skied for a couple of weeks on boots that were not optimal and it caused me to ski badly for about a month - I knew I wasn't skiing well but couldn't seem to fix it.  I spent a couple hours with Aleks Smith and all of a sudden it clicked and now I'm really happy with how I'm skiing.  The point is that I'm very in tune with what I'm doing and I could not fix myself.  It seems that all the strong skiers that like working on their skiing become instructors themselves since its a natural path.

BigK75 wrote

Hi Goronzola:

When you say Blue Mtn, are you talking about Blue Mountain in Ontario?  

If so I did not see any moguls classes.  If there are can you post a link as I would be very interested in that.  Blue is only 1hr 45min door to door for me.  Next year we plan to rent a cottage for the winter and this would definitely be something I would be interested in.  

Claude

sorry claude, it's blue mt pennsylvania. over the last few seasons there been a lot of enthusiasm for the moguls and at any given point point we have as many as 4 (mostly seeded) bump runs, a compettion, adult clinics and a junior program.

gorgonzola wrote

BigK75 wrote

Hi Goronzola:

When you say Blue Mtn, are you talking about Blue Mountain in Ontario?  

If so I did not see any moguls classes.  If there are can you post a link as I would be very interested in that.  Blue is only 1hr 45min door to door for me.  Next year we plan to rent a cottage for the winter and this would definitely be something I would be interested in.  

Claude

sorry claude, it's blue mt pennsylvania. over the last few seasons there been a lot of enthusiasm for the moguls and at any given point point we have as many as 4 (mostly seeded) bump runs, a compettion, adult clinics and a junior program.

Dang I was hoping that we had this great moguls clinic here in Ontario. :)

Perhaps I will send an email to the the director of the ski school and make a suggestion that they look at a similar program.

Claude

If I am going to take a clinic, it is going to be out west where I would hope to tie it into somewhat more reliable pow and hucks with nice landings. I'd do it over a week - ten days. Maybe it could be taught simultaneously with Avy Level 2 or greater, and a WFA refresher. Few days lift serve, few days hiking, afternoons in the classroom, evenings in the hot tub.

Actually, maybe I should teach this course....

I'm kinda with some of these other guys.  I'm sure I could REALLY benefit from some instruction. I've never had a lesson and my bad habits run deep. (Paging MC2).

But I get soo few days each year and I just find it impossible to pull myself away from skiing to stop and listen. I swore I would do it this year. I SWORE IT! But I didn't.

Actually when I did some hut-to-hut in Colorado, I skied with guides who were really giving lessons all day.  I really liked that. When you are earning turns stopping to listen provides a chance to rest too.

No drinks, none of that other stuff would entice me. Actually as much as I loathe the whole idea of Stratton's cheater pass, I'd be more tempted to take a lesson if I could get out on the mountain at say 7am, 90 mins before everyone else.

More skiing please.

Remember cutting lift lines with your coach (I prefer that term over instructor) means more skiing and less waiting in line.   On a busy Saturday that could easily be worth the cost of a group clinic's cost.

Getting out early is tough given gromming and Patrol's effort to get the MT ready for us all

Same here, when I have time to ski I just want to ski and not take a lesson.

That said, our crew consist's of ex- instructors, racers and race coaches so we're always talking about skiing and helping each other out.

Coach Z wrote

Remember cutting lift lines with your coach (I prefer that term over instructor) means more skiing and less waiting in line.  

and less skiing due to coaching

skimore wrote

I would surmise most of the high level skiers would just rather ski

Agreed. And if you are a high level skier, you can diagnose most problems that you would consider holding you back. For me, it pretty much comes down to lose weight, get in better shape, and ski more days... once you are satisfied with your proficiency, taking a clinic isn't really something that is high on my to do list. If I want to drill technique, I know how to do that. But I don't because its boring and it takes a ton of time for a small improvement, I'd get more improvements by fixing my fitness level.

I am going to have to agree with Harvey and Camp. I just don't ski enough. It is even less when you have kids.

I do not live close to any challenging area with night skiing so a week night plan does not work for me either. Thow in a wife who travels at least once a month for a week on business and the opportunity to have scheduled weekly lessons goes out the window.

My skiing would benefit from a periodic lesson but when I balance the time and money vs the improvement I might get, I have a hard time justifying the lesson. This calculation takes into account lift tickets, my kid in an all day lesson for at least 1 day of a weekend and my wife needing (and taking) lessons way more than I do. Despite the many flaws in my technique, I always have a great time when I am skiing.

If I was an hour or closer to a Gore type area and I was able to ski more then I would be more likely to try a weekly program.

Life has a way of messing up my ski plans.

i agree with skimore and rivercoil. i've reached the point where my skiing will only improve by skiing more and in more varied terrain and conditions. i'm learning by doing it. a friend who is a certified instructor, recently took a trees and steeps course. he stated that the only thing he learned was a few new secret glades and entrances. however, i often see plenty of people skiing who desperately need a lesson. a few pointers whould dramatically improve their skill and fun. if i thought i had a problem skiing i would rush to a class.

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I would love to see a Mountain Adventure-type program for grown-ups. I rarely take a lesson, and would benefit from some instruction. It would be great to spend every weekend with a group of same-ability skiers and a coach. We could have a lot of laughs and improve our skiing at the same time.  Stratton started a program like this, and some of my neighbors have done it and loved it.  My kids totally outski me now, and I'd love to catch up.

This is pretty much what I expected to hear concerning taking clinics - note that I do not say lessons.  To serve this segment of skiers the talking needs to kept to on lift rides and keep the group moving.  It needs to be a coaching session with tips and tactics to be intermixed with tons of skiing.

As I started out this thread I'm most interested what it would take to get you all in a clinic.

Maybe we need a special NYSB clinic series with Matt and I and get some special guest coaches like Brian Smith or a race coach.  Anyone interested in that?

Naked Boobs.