Alterra interested in Jay, VR is not

marznc wrote

Would families in Ottawa really want to drive all the way to Jay for the tram and the waterpark during the winter, instead of going to Tremblant or Mt. Ste. Anne?

Absolutely. They might even drive that far despite the tram and waterpark. I certainly do.

I am not familiar with the exact number Jay gets, but I know Smuggs gets a huge influx of families from Ottawa/Ontario during their vacation week. I am sure Jay gets some of that as well, it is just much more noticeable at Smuggs... probably because I talk to a lot more people on Smuggs's doubles whereas I keep to myself a bit more on Jay's lifts. MSA is further away than Jay and Jay gets more than double the natural snowfall of Tremblant...

riverc0il wrote

marznc wrote

Would families in Ottawa really want to drive all the way to Jay for the tram and the waterpark during the winter, instead of going to Tremblant or Mt. Ste. Anne?

Absolutely. They might even drive that far despite the tram and waterpark. I certainly do.

I am not familiar with the exact number Jay gets, but I know Smuggs gets a huge influx of families from Ottawa/Ontario during their vacation week. I am sure Jay gets some of that as well, it is just much more noticeable at Smuggs... probably because I talk to a lot more people on Smuggs's doubles whereas I keep to myself a bit more on Jay's lifts. MSA is further away than Jay and Jay gets more than double the natural snowfall of Tremblant...

Is the Ontario vacation week different from the American vacation week?  I could understand that being a reason to cross the border for a family ski vacation.

Silly question . . . is Jay as cold as MSA in Jan-Feb?  I know how cold Lake Placid and Whiteface gets in the winter.  For a family with young kids from Ottawa, cold could be a factor I suppose.

People probably go for the cloud. It’s real.

I only skied Jay once while I was staying at Smuggs and there had to be twice as much snow at Jay. It was like Utah deep.

marznc wrote

Is the Ontario vacation week different from the American vacation week?  I could understand that being a reason to cross the border for a family ski vacation.

Silly question . . . is Jay as cold as MSA in Jan-Feb?  I know how cold Lake Placid and Whiteface gets in the winter.  For a family with young kids from Ottawa, cold could be a factor I suppose.

All public schools in Ontario are off about 10 March.

BTW, Ottawa gets just as f'n cold as L.P.

Anyone know for sure why Jay gets more natural snow?  I'm guessing it's because the jet stream picks up moisture from Lake Champlain and/or the St. Lawrence.  Being the highest peak in the area - boom - you have the snow.

There are several factors lining up to help Jay.

The Green Mountain spine runs roughly north-south which, with the prevailing wind, is very good for pulling snow out of the atmosphere.  At the NORTHERN END of the spine it turns a bit to the northeast-southwest which is even better or ideal. (Advantage Stowe, Smuggs, Jay)

Jay has NOTHING really blocking it to the west. It's a monadnock.   (Advantage Jay)

Lake Champlain is up wind. (Advantage Stowe, Smuggs, Jay)

It is far north, so colder and less rain. (Advantage Stowe, Smuggs, Jay)

for anyone else who wasn;t sure:

Monadnock, isolated hill of bedrock standing conspicuously above the general level of the surrounding area. Monadnocks are left as erosional remnants because of their more resistant rock composition; commonly they consist of quartzite or less jointed massive volcanic rocks. In contrast to inselbergs (island mountains), a similar tropical landform, monadnocks are formed in humid, temperate regions. They take their name from Mt. Monadnock, a solitary mass of rock (3,165 feet [965 metres]) in Monadnock State Park, southeast of Keene, in Cheshire County, southwestern New Hampshire, U.S. A well-known example is Stone Mountain in Georgia, U.S.

Yea I'm not sure I used the word correctly in this case. I have no idea about the geology of Jay. Still... PowAss be damned, it does stand alone as the snowiest in the east.  Wind is certainly a factor, but on total volume of snow...

Harvey wrote

It is far north, so colder and less rain. (Advantage Stowe, Smuggs, Jay)

That may be a key factor for Alterra in terms of adding a location in the northeast.  That plus the fact that Jay has certainly become a 4-season resort.  Having family friendly stuff to do like the waterpark during the winter when it's too cold and windy to ski all day should also be of interest.

When does Jay typically have all the trails open?  Always decent by Christmas?  Thinking about the trails that people who stay on resort would be on most of the time, not steep trees that are fully dependent on natural snow.

I’m not a geologist, just a map guy.

Jay Peak stands alone as a ski area, separate from other clusters of VT ski areas. Lots of open, relatively flat terrain northwest of it. But it is not a Monadnock. It is obviously part of the Green Mountain spine.  

Ascutney would be a known VT ski area that is a Monadnock.

marznc wrote

When does Jay typically have all the trails open?  Always decent by Christmas?  Thinking about the trails that people who stay on resort would be on most of the time, not steep trees that are fully dependent on natural snow.

This is entirely dependent on natural snowfall. They could be 100% or only have the Jet and the Haynes open by Christmas or New Year's. They have limited snowmaking and need to play connect the dots. So even their snowmaking terrain is slow to open in a bad snow year. I've skied anything I've wanted, including glades, before they opened on +3' in October. And I've skied 3-4 sketchy groomer routes only just after New Year's. On average, I would call it a bad year if most on map terrain excepting the ridge has not opened at least once by MLK Day. Christmas is a crap shot, just like any where else. It just takes an early winter rain/freeze to hit the reset button on a significant amount of terrain that may have previously been open.

Is there a 360 view from the summit at Jay?  More a question for the summer, but also for winter tourists.  

Is there any terrain on the backside that's skiable?  Or completely off limits?  Just looked at the online trail map for the first time.

Noticed that Canadians can get a Jay season pass at par for Canadian dollars if they pay in person by cash or mail a check.  Online credit card purchases in U.S. dollars only.  Second deadline is mid-Oct before price goes up to about $1000.

riverc0il wrote

marznc wrote

When does Jay typically have all the trails open?  Always decent by Christmas?  Thinking about the trails that people who stay on resort would be on most of the time, not steep trees that are fully dependent on natural snow.

This is entirely dependent on natural snowfall. They could be 100% or only have the Jet and the Haynes open by Christmas or New Year's. They have limited snowmaking and need to play connect the dots. So even their snowmaking terrain is slow to open in a bad snow year. I've skied anything I've wanted, including glades, before they opened on +3' in October. And I've skied 3-4 sketchy groomer routes only just after New Year's. On average, I would call it a bad year if most on map terrain excepting the ridge has not opened at least once by MLK Day. Christmas is a crap shot, just like any where else. It just takes an early winter rain/freeze to hit the reset button on a significant amount of terrain that may have previously been open.

Are there a few obvious places where adding snowmaking would help assure a decent amount of terrain for the Christmas holidays?  Any idea what the water source is?

Now that Massanutten has more or less unlimited water, they start building as deep a base as possible on the three core trails (green, blue, black) to increase the likelihood of being able to stay open when the inevitable Jan thaw hits.  They don't bother to work on other trails until about the week before MLK Day if temps haven't been cold enough in late Dec or early Jan.  May wait until late Jan to add the last trail or two if necessary.  Obviously very different from Jay, but the changes in the last decade at Massanutten have been interesting to observe.

marznc wrote

Is there a 360 view from the summit at Jay?  More a question for the summer, but also for winter tourists.  

Is there any terrain on the backside that's skiable?  Or completely off limits?  Just looked at the online trail map for the first time.

Noticed that Canadians can get a Jay season pass at par for Canadian dollars if they pay in person by cash or mail a check.  Online credit card purchases in U.S. dollars only.  Second deadline is mid-Oct before price goes up to about $1000.

There is a tremendous 360 view from the summit, assuming that you climb the often-treacherous stairs up to the top. On a clear day you can see Montreal, Mt. Washington, Stowe and the ADK.

Not sure what you mean by "backside" but there is lots of off-map terrain to ski. Backside could mean The Dip, which is popular or even Big Jay, which is a more serious outing.

I don't buy season passes anymore but did buy a few in CAD by cheque or in person. It is a good deal but you have to have proof of a Canadian address to take advantage of it.

The summit can look like this:



Or this:

Sick Bird Rider wrote

There is a tremendous 360 view from the summit, assuming that you climb the often-treacherous stairs up to the top. On a clear day you can see Montreal, Mt. Washington, Stowe and the ADK.

The summit can look like this:



Or this:

Thanks for the pics.  I would certainly be headed up the stairs for the view.

Reminds me of the Big Sky tram.  Last season went up to ski Liberty following a friend who moved out there from the northeast to be an instructor.  Lots of fog and clouds at the very top.  She assured us that once we got down a bit, we'd be able to see and the snow would get better.  Still it was good that wasn't my first time dealing with the switchbacks.

Guess now we wait and see who ends up buying Jay.  I'm certainly more likely to make the trek at some point if it were part of Ikon.  Would like to ski Tremblant during mid-season.  Only got a taste visiting a friend in early Dec a while back.

LMAO!!  So true!