Anyone care Snowbasin moving to Epic? SV too

Vail Resorts announced last week that Snowbasin and Sun Valley will be on Epic passes starting 2019-20.  Those were the only two locations on the MCP that weren't on Ikon too for 2018-19.

SV seems a good fit for Epic folks in the midwest and northeast.  Not so sure about Snowbasin.  But for whatever reason the Holding family didn't want to work with Alterra.

The VR partners in the U.S. include Telluride, Sun Valley, Snowbasin.  Also RCR locations in Canada like Kicking Horse.

I used to like Snowbasin. I first skied (actually, rode) there in 92? 3? During a four day gap between Park City and Jackson Hole. A lot of locals in Park City praised SB when I asked on the lifts, so I got a room in Ogden and drove up. I experienced a wonderful, classic two feet plus Utah powder storm over about 60 hours there. This was the old, pre Olympics SB, hard to get to, relatively speaking to the Cottinwoods and PC, and just two doubles and two triples, and a great, funky old lodge. I swear, on the third day I arrived at the bottom lifts at 8:55 and only saw seven people standing at each of the two main lifts. Smiling. In other words, heaven, with that pixie dust floating in the trying to be bluebird but not quite day. A Thursday. Hooked up with a local boarder on first lift, about my age, who showed me around. It was like God sent me a friend and guide.
I skied there a few years later in similar conditions. Again, awesome.

Well, they screwed it up. The Olympic buildup is strange. The lodges and bathrooms are legend. Its like John Wayne partnered with Donald Trump. But, whats really strange is that there is not one bed, still, at the base. But that didn't save it from crowds. Part of the famous Olympic corruption is that Holding, the Mormon elder who owns it and Sun Valley, got a whole hew road built that reduced driving time from SLC dramatically. I got there from Sandy last year in an hour twenty, and Sandy is south SLC. The crowd last year on the Saturday I went, to avoid the Cottonwood crowds, haha, was a record turnout. It was ridiculous. It hadnt snowed for a while and suddenly that week brought two storms, but, still, it was nuts. The fresh powder was gone in an hour. Now, with the Epic thing, that place is doomed. Don't even think of going near it on the weekend or holiday. Too bad. Nice mountain. Nice snow.

Damn this is horrible news I really like going to Snowbasin when I’m out in Utah. Guess I won’t be able to afford/justify it anymore.  Used to always find coupons one way or another,  so that’s probably over with .

Its probably still ok on a powder non holiday Wednesday, until the condos invade. And the golf course.

Benny Profane wrote

I used to like Snowbasin.
. . .
I got there from Sandy last year in an hour twenty, and Sandy is south SLC. The crowd last year on the Saturday I went, to avoid the Cottonwood crowds, haha, was a record turnout. It was ridiculous. It hadnt snowed for a while and suddenly that week brought two storms, but, still, it was nuts. The fresh powder was gone in an hour. Now, with the Epic thing, that place is doomed. Don't even think of going near it on the weekend or holiday. Too bad. Nice mountain. Nice snow.

The increasing crowds at Snowbasin started a few years ago when Sun Valley and Snowbasin were added to the Mountain Collective.  I heard from someone who would know that SV asked to join the MCP.

Will be interesting to see what happens at Powder Mountain.  One of the few places that limits not only the number of season passes but also the number of day tickets.  Fully connected to the Whisper Ridge cat/heli operation that borders PowMow land.

ADmiKe wrote

Damn this is horrible news I really like going to Snowbasin when I’m out in Utah. Guess I won’t be able to afford/justify it anymore.  Used to always find coupons one way or another,  so that’s probably over with .

Have you found deals since Snowbasin was added to the MCP for 2017-18?  Sun Valley was added for 2015-16.  I went with a couple friends to check out SV for a couple days before skiing at Alta and Aspen.  Got my money's worth from the MCP that season.  Glad we went but not high on my list for a return trip.

If places that are on mega passes are getting crowded, and skier visits are not rising... ugh.

Eventually if everyone is on a mega pass, will visits actually rise, or will it revert to normal, with less revenue?

Harvey wrote

If places that are on mega passes are getting crowded, and skier visits are not rising... ugh.

Eventually if everyone is on a mega pass, will visits actually rise, or will it revert to normal, with less revenue?

For each region, snow conditions have more to do with skier visits than anything else.  Difference now is that Vail Resorts and Alterra have money in the bank by December from pass sales, well before anyone really knows where the snow will fall . . . or not.

Last season, Taos in Feb was deserted because there was no snow.  Last week there were plenty of annual guests as well as people using the Ikon or MCP who had never been to Taos before.  But not clear how many would've gone anyway by getting a week's worth of lift tickets from GetSkiTickets.  There was a ski club from the midwest with 50 people.  They weren't using Ikon/MCP passes, just getting the usual club trip discount.

That makes sense.

So if all resorts were on one or two or three passes, people would go where the snow is and each company would be somewhat hedged.

Looks like the market liked the idea of adding SV and Snowbasin to Epic.  MTN seems to have trended up in the last week.

One big difference between VR and Alterra is that VR is a public company and Alterra is not.  They seem alike in that neither is interested in real estate in the sense of resort lodging, but are focusing on revenue from 4-season operations.  Alterra made that clear from the beginning.  Katz changed the approach of VR after he ended up in charge and invented the Epic pass.  Also made a difference when the rules were changed in 2011 that allowed the Forest Service to grant permits for summer activities such as zip lines.  VR and other Colorado ski resort operators lobbied hard for that change.  But the guidelines weren't finalized until 2014.

https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2014/04/15/us-forest-service-finalizes-policy-promote-year-round-recreation

"The revised directives were spurred by the Ski Area Recreational Opportunity Enhancement Act of 2011, which amended the National Forest Ski Area Permit Act of 1986 that limited recreation to Nordic and alpine skiing. The 2011 act specifically includes such activities as zip lines, mountain bike terrain parks and trails, disc golf courses and rope courses. These types of activities are natural resource-based and encourage further exploration of Forest Service lands in contrast to theme or amusement parks."

If you're an employee, do you get to ski at all the areas, for instance, that are on the Epic pass?

According to Mt Brighton's web page, all employees get an Epic Pass with access to all 17 resorts.

Snow basin is still a fun place to ski though I would skip Saturdays and hit Powmo instead in staying up north
Sunday’s are still not that crowded with the Mormons in church

There is a ton on blue terrain and some of the lower lifts can have lines but if you know your way around the black terrain is lightly trafficked

There will never be beds at the base. It was part of the deal they made to build the expansion.  We have stayed in Eden where there are plenty of condos for rent a couple times allowing access to both Powmo and SB

I think SB fits the Vail model pretty well and gives thier Park City based visitors an appealing day trip option.

Z wrote

Snow basin is still a fun place to ski though I would skip Saturdays and hit Powmo instead in staying up north
Sunday’s are still not that crowded with the Mormons in church

There is a ton on blue terrain and some of the lower lifts can have lines but if you know your way around the black terrain is lightly trafficked

There will never be beds at the base. It was part of the deal they made to build the expansion.  We have stayed in Eden where there are plenty of condos for rent a couple times allowing access to both Powmo and SB

I think SB fits the Vail model pretty well and gives thier Park City based visitors an appealing day trip option.

From a terrain standpoint, Snowbasin fits what flatlanders with the Epic pass at Park City generally like.  Perhaps with the incentive of no extra cost for a lift ticket, they would consider a day trip to the Ogden Valley.  But it takes really poor conditions many to venture to Alta as a day trip, even during late season.  Once a group is settled into ski in/out lodging with the free bus system, I imagine it's harder to get everyone up early to go exploring.

Certainly good for VR marketing to be able to say there is another location for Epic passholders when they fly to SLC.  Especially with direct competition from MCP/Ikon covering Alta/Snowbird, Solitude/Brighton, and Deer Valley.

I've stayed in Eden.  Certainly lots of condo options.  Works out pretty well as long as willing to make the drive.  The road up to PowMow can be pretty hairy when fully snow covered.  At least there is a bus option.

D.B. Cooper wrote

If you're an employee, do you get to ski at all the areas, for instance, that are on the Epic pass?

Pretty sure the answer is yes.  Although the Telluride employees were not excited about the idea of going to VR locations.  At least not in comparison to what they could do when Telluride was associated with the MCP.