Belleayre Expansion

I looked over the plans and I have to say some of the expansion, especially in regards to the Lifts, their build out, and layout are almost borderline ridiculous in the utter redundancy its going to create.

4 new lifts... 1 replacement, 3 new lift lines. The Belleayre West lift maybe the hardest to justify in its current configuration.

It makes Gore's sprawl over the last few years look logically tame.

What the hell is the DEC thinking? Give it time and I suspect this is going to turn into a disaster again

Is there an image we can look at?

EDIT: Found it, or more accurately X found it.

Posted it in the directory, it can be a bit larger there:

http://directory.nyskiblog.com/Belleayre-Ski-Center-Development-Plan-2011-td5001421.html

This links you to another version of the plan with real (not USGS) topo.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/permits_ej_operations_pdf/bellappa2.pdf

If you can navigate to figure 2-32 of this document (figures are at the end of section 2), that graphic tells the whole story and may help explain the location of the west lift.  Get them out of the hotels and right up onto the hill.

http://www.thelagroup.com/Belleayre_Resort/SDEIS/pdf/SDEIS%20Volume%201.pdf

Here is the image from the link posted by playone:

http://directory.nyskiblog.com/Belleayre-Ski-Center-Development-Plan-LA-Group-td5001423.html

BTW welcome playone. That link you posted in the History of Belleayre pic is incredible.  I wonder if you'd be willing to do an edit of our piece to ad some of the information in all those clippings. There is a ton of great info there.

I think the plan looks great. I have a hard time understanding how anyone who skis could be opposed to expanded terrain and better lifts. The plan also cures what I have always thought was the mountain's biggest drawback - no top to bottom lift.  That 1404' vertical figure is misleading because you have to take 2 lifts to get base to summit. At least now that would be an option.

Im not opposed to expanded terrain at a mountain that Im season pass holder to, Im just stating given the past issues Belleayre and this resort project have had, that pumping in SEVENTY FOUR MILLION dollars might not be the most logical thing to do to help get Joe Taxpayer on its side.

I may be arm chair judging this, but that sum of money to be invested into a single ski area that this point in history, let alone a State run facility is mind blowing and some what cringe worthy.

As for the Belleayre West, I like its concept but in its current configuration its just another lift they will have to spin. Why not remove Tomahawk and reroute the Belleayre West lift to start where it currently does but instead terminate at the current unloading area of the Tomahawk. The flow out for the west side skiers would still be served and you could get another couple of hundred feet of vertical out of the lift (and not have to run two lifts to serve trails like Upper Dot and eastward).

It all just seems like a lot of excess.

Belleayre Resort Plan Gets Support At Public Hearing

By JAY BRAMAN Jr.

HIGHMOUNT, N.Y. — Supporters of the proposed Belleayre Resort at Catskill Park were in the majority at a public hearing about the plan that attracted some 300 people.

The state Department of Environmental Conservation hearing, held Wednesday in the Discovery Lodge at the Belleayre Mountain Ski Center, focused on both the proposed private-sector resort and the state’s $74 million plan to expand the ski facility.

The hearing was the first in more than five years on Crossroad Ventures’ resort plan, a $400 million proposal now 14 years in the making. And unlike last time, people who favor the resort outnumbered opponents.

Along the road leading to Belleayre before the hearing were signs with such statements as “Eliminate welfare,” “Opportunity knocks once” and “I want a job.”

At the doorway to the lodge, a vendor handed out free T-shirts and buttons that proclaimed support for the resort. The vendor estimated about 75 percent of attendees said they backed the plan.

(FULL STORY via Daily Freeman LINKED ABOVE)

"“Eliminate welfare,”"

That's a hoot. I wonder how many of those 75% are Tea Party types who don't see the irony in that statement.

$74 million in NYS taxpayer dollars - are they on crack?

"Ruzow said the resort would generate 541 full-time jobs and 230 part-time jobs. Average wages, he said, would be $14 to $15 an hour."

Yeah right when pigs fly

WINDHAM MOUNTAIN RAISES OBJECTIONS TO BELLEAYRE EXPANSION
 
WINDHAM MOUNTAIN, N.Y. (July 24, 2013) – Windham Mountain Resort is raising objections to the proposed five-year $74 million expansion of the New York State funded ski area Belleayre Mountain.
 
One of four ski resorts in the Catskill Mountains, Windham Mountain is concerned that the proposed expansion will take business away from the remaining three private resorts.
 
“We love competition, but only on a level playing field. We don’t see spending taxpayer money on an expansion with a questionable return on investment as a level playing field,” says president and general manager Chip Seamans.
 
The Resort argues that just as Windham, Hunter and Plattekill ski areas must earn a profit or borrow money in order to fund improvements, Belleayre should be held to the same standard. Belleayre plans to move forward with the multi-million dollar expansion despite reporting a consistent annual loss, making the investment difficult to justify.
 
Crossroad Ventures, the private development company leading the project alongside the Department of Environmental Conservation, estimates that the $74 million taxpayer investment will generate a $1.2 million annual profit for the ski center. If successful, this return on investment will take 62 years of committing 100% of profits to recover the New York State tax money spent on the project.
 
The proposal also projects that Belleayre Mountain will double skier visits as a result of the expansion, despite ski industry studies that show a need to find new skiers and riders as the baby boom generation retires from the sport. Windham Mountain projects that Belleayre could only achieve that number of visits at the expense of surrounding Catskill Mountain ski areas.

But the politically connected few are going to do really well!

Windham wrote

WINDHAM MOUNTAIN RAISES OBJECTIONS TO BELLEAYRE EXPANSION
 
WINDHAM MOUNTAIN, N.Y. (July 24, 2013) – Windham Mountain Resort is raising objections to the proposed five-year $74 million expansion of the New York State funded ski area Belleayre Mountain.
 
One of four ski resorts in the Catskill Mountains, Windham Mountain is concerned that the proposed expansion will take business away from the remaining three private resorts.
 
“We love competition, but only on a level playing field. We don’t see spending taxpayer money on an expansion with a questionable return on investment as a level playing field,” says president and general manager Chip Seamans.

I guess a level playing field means no money ever spent on Belleayre. It is a valuable taxpayer owned asset designed to help the RT 28 corridor with jobs and provide skiing. Where should the money come from? Windham's huge expansion and upgrade program has benefitted greatly from Belle's lack of upgrades. Your own Windham timeline shows major improvements in 18 of the last 32 years. What have Windham's upgrades done to improve the financial situation on RT 28 near Belleayre?

Windham wrote

 
The Resort argues that just as Windham, Hunter and Plattekill ski areas must earn a profit or borrow money in order to fund improvements, Belleayre should be held to the same standard. Belleayre plans to move forward with the multi-million dollar expansion despite reporting a consistent annual loss, making the investment difficult to justify.

Maybe there wouldn't be annual losses (I would like to see the statements) if Belleayre had some constant upgrading (like most ski areas including Windham).If you don't like NYS owning a ski area change the NYS Constitution so the place can be sold to a private entity. But be careful what you wish for - NYS has been asleep at the wheel. Would Windham like to compete with another deep pocketed type operation complete with slopeside housing? There are some out there that would love to be 130 miles from the middle of NYC.

Windham wrote

Crossroad Ventures, the private development company leading the project alongside the Department of Environmental Conservation, estimates that the $74 million taxpayer investment will generate a $1.2 million annual profit for the ski center. If successful, this return on investment will take 62 years of committing 100% of profits to recover the New York State tax money spent on the project.

NYS will never spend $74 million on Belleayre. Another summer is ticking by with no major upgrades at Belleayre. Your ROI calculation is off as it ignores the financial benefits to the Rt 28 corridor from an improved Belleayre. You need to read about the net return to NYS that the ORDA facilities provide to the Adirondack region.

Windham wrote

The proposal also projects that Belleayre Mountain will double skier visits as a result of the expansion, despite ski industry studies that show a need to find new skiers and riders as the baby boom generation retires from the sport. Windham Mountain projects that Belleayre could only achieve that number of visits at the expense of surrounding Catskill Mountain ski areas.

A slope side village and an upgraded and expanded Belleayre will draw more skiers from other markets into the Catskills therefore improving the visits to the region. Windham Mountain with 1600 vertical feet, 265 acres of skiing, 2 HSQs, and 98% snowmaking should be happy that Belle is finally getting some upgrades. It can only improve the number of visitors to the region.