Belleayre Expansion

Long time lurker on these web boards and first time poster. I saw this story on the Watershed Post web site about an expansion of Belleayre Mountain - http://www.watershedpost.com/2013/dec-releases-new-draft-plans-belleayre-resort-and-ski-center.

Is this expansion in conjunction with the proposed Belleayre Resort or a separate proposed expansion by Belleayre?

The two would happen concurrently, at least that's how the original plan envisioned it.

I've been looking forward to the Highmount expansion for years, but there have been so many false starts, I can't take it seriously until the first shovel is in the ground. Harv, any comments from ORDA leadership about the chances of it actually happening this time?

Just for a disclaimer before I get going: Im 25 and current midweek pass holder at Belleayre and have been for a number of years.

I have to be honest I don't know why they don't let this grand vision of expansion lay low for another 5 years or so. 74 million dollars in expansion and infrastructure upgrades? to Belleayre? At some point someone needs to just beat some sense into the DEC's head. I don't mean to come off as negative but this concept that Belleayre is going to become a major hub for skier traffic is just not a reality any more, its time came and went. Its located to far west in the Catskills and its terrain leaves much to be desired. Even with the Highmount expansion its vertical is severely hampered. Theres just not much to market to the average joe/jane weekend warrior skier (and family), that they couldn't get somewhere else.

Before building out, take a hard look at the current property and completely reinvest into it. I just feel as though, as in years past, announcing a 74 Million dollar project is going to create another round of backlash in a time where the state is grappling for money. After the last few years of uncertainty at Belleayre, it finally felt like this year they were moving in the right direction and building a solid foundation for the future by taking what they had and doubling down on it. This isn't going to create any good will amongst the other Catskill resorts, again.

What resort in the East can get a 74 million dollar infusion like this in these times? Even the 23 million dollars set aside for upgrades would be enough to draw the ire of people . Down in Orange County NY the Times Herald Record had a front page mention of this project, and a full page spread on the project on Page 3. Meanwhile the next dozen pages are littered with on going articles about various school districts being forced to close down schools in a desperate attempt to close budget gaps, slashing full day kindergarden, arts, technology, and sports programs. Does the DEC think this project is going to create any good will towards them and the mountain?

No direct offense to Joe Kelly and the DEC, but sometimes laying low for a while and building up from within is better than visions of grander.

ORDA is in charge now, and they want to own a "resort" and not a "ski area".

I agree with a lot of what you say though. They should build slowly and incrementally, although I doubt the $74M is a single lump investment. I'd love to see Highmount incorporated with its consistent pitch and great exposure, but couldn't care less about anything else.

Whats interesting is even though ORDA is managing Belleayre right now, this current project is still DEC, and some info I have found seems to clearly define ORDA and the DEC, in regards to this project, separately. Maybe someone can chime in with more details about this?

ml242 wrote

see Highmount incorporated with its consistent pitch and great exposure, but couldn't care less about anything else.

+1 and cut trails on Cathedral while they're at it, since IIRC Highmount won't add to the trail limit. That said, we know that they won't do one (terrain expansion) without the other (resort).

NO NO NO NO NO Cutting trails on Cathedral!  Brush and sapling clearing yes. That area holds natural snow better than anywhere on the mountain and is perfect glade terrain!

I dont think they can cut beyond the current Cathedral Brook trail, I believe the whole Eastern Expansion at Belleayre mentioned in long term development plans are no more due to an agreement with the DEP, the lands status has been changed to forever wild

evantful wrote

I dont think they can cut beyond the current Cathedral Brook trail, I believe the whole Eastern Expansion at Belleayre mentioned in long term development plans are no more due to an agreement with the DEP, the lands status has been changed to forever wild

That's ^^^ what I was referring to, cutting a few trails west of the Cathedral Brook trail, not east of it. I understood as well that the CB eastern peak was now off-limits.

Check this out, proposal to update Belleayre's Unit Management Plan, including "replacing lifts, creating new ski trails, expanding parking and redeveloping the ski trails of the former Highmount Ski Center."  DEC is accepting comments.

http://adventures-in-the-outdoors.blogspot.com/2013/04/news-belleayre-mountain-ski-center-ump.html

A quick online search didn't turn up the proposed UMP, the most recent one I found is dated 2008:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/permits_ej_operations_pdf/belleayrefinalscope.pdf

This URL leads to environmental impact info regarding the proposed Belleayre resort: http://www.thelagroup.com/Belleayre_Resort/index.htm

Belleayre pro or con, I don't have a dog in this fight.  Just curious about 1) why everyone's so hot to sink money into this when there are longstanding UMPs for other ORDA properties that haven't been acted on. 2) If anyone has a link to Belleayre's proposed UMP, please share.  Thanks,

I believe this is the latest.


http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/54704.html

@ Frank7, Thank you for sharing this.  Odd that there's nothing for Region 5.

I admit to have a very limited attention span.

What on that page of a zillion pdfs is most relevant?

Try the Final Scope document, towards the bottom of the page.  It's not the actual unit management plan, however.  

And here, nyuck nyuck nyuck, is the first draft of the actual [proposed] UMP

http://www.scribd.com/doc/136524698/Belleayre-Ski-Center-Draft-Unit-Management-Plan-Part-1.

Thank you to Watershed Post for posting the UMP.

Does anyone know:

Where is the $74M coming from?  Is the project public or privately funded?

James if this gets built it isn't going to look like the Highmount you remember.

Harvey44 wrote

James, if this gets built it isn't going to look like the Highmount you remember.

I didn't start downhill skiing until 2000, eight years after Highmount closed... so I have no memories of the ski area in operation. All I know is the ghost-town version.

Harvey - thats my question! Is this going to be DEC funded or is this part of the Belleayre Crossroads venture?

Where'd you get the $74 million figure?

Jamesdeluxe wrote

Harvey44 wrote

James, if this gets built it isn't going to look like the Highmount you remember.

All I know is the ghost-town version.

Exactly.

Peter - from the original article linked in the first post:

"The Times Herald-Record has an in-depth story on the Belleayre Ski Center expansion, most of which is slated to take place on the grounds of the long-defunct Highmount Ski Center next to Belleayre. The state does not currently own the Highmount parcel, but hopes to acquire it.  In the story, local Belleayre booster Joe Kelly, who is now vice chair on the ORDA board, says the $74 million expansion project would be a boon for the region."

frank7 wrote

Harvey - thats my question! Is this going to be DEC funded or is this part of the Belleayre Crossroads venture?

Looks like the $74M is state money:

"If the most ambitious of six options put forward by the New York State DEC in its release of the long-anticipated Unit Management Plan (UMP) is chosen to move forward, Dean Gitter’s Belleayre Resort project will be back. The UMP consists of an analysis of the alternatives for the use of the entire mountaintop ridge straddling Ulster and Delaware Counties. In it, the state proposes spending at least $74 million of state funds to upgrade state-owned Belleayre Mountain Ski Center over the next five years. Combined with the Resort plan, the two proposals represent nearly $440 million in investment plans for the central Catskills, to be spent in phases."

http://www.woodstockx.com/2013/04/28/states-plans-for-belleayre-include-gitter-resort/

Sounds like the 74M from the state is just for the ski center.

I know some think the cup will runneth over, all the way into Roxbury. But this has got to be bumming Laszlo out.