Belleayre Expansions

In skiing Belleayre this year, I've done some research on previous expansions of the ski area.

Up until 1999, Superchief and Tomahawk didn't exist.  There was a double chair that ran on the Superchief line from the lodge, but didn't start below it, like the current lift does.

On the current Tomahawk side, there was a T-Bar between Peekamoose and Esopus, but only went half of the way up.  Dot Nebel and the current Deer Run route didn't exist.  You could ski the tops of Algonquin, Peekamoose, and Seneca from the original Deer Run route off Lift 7.  Then you ended up at the T-Bar, and had to take it to get out.  I don't think anything past Yahoo had snowmaking either.  It was added when they put in Tomahawk.

The original Deer Run route looked to be this very long cat track from the top of Lift 7, around the West Side, to where the T-Bar used to begin.  Parts of it are still skiable, but parts are also abandoned.  From Lift 7, to Dot Nebel, this route is used as a cutover from Lift 7 to any West Side trails without having to go down and up the Tomahawk.  There is no snowmaking however.  From Dot Nebel to the current Deer Run route is abandoned.  The next portion is skiable on the new Deer Run, it was just widened and snowmaking added.  The portion of Cayuga that faces east is also part of the original Deer Run.  Skier's right of Dot Nebel, the trail isn't on the map.  Did anyone ski the original Deer Run route?

In 1999, the T-Bar and Summit Double were replaced by a pair of CTEC fixed grip quads.  All first time learning terrain was previously at Overlook Lodge, and was all moved to the Discovery Lodge.  The summit double line was extended downward, and the learning terrain incorporated into a longer run down to the Superchief Fixed Quad, upgraded in 2006 to high speed.  On the other side, they nixed the very bottom portions of Esopus, Pepacton, and Peekamoose.  Instead, skiers were routed down Tomahawk Crossing to the new quad.  The lift also expanded the vertical, running up to an elevation of 3,430 feet.  The current version of Deer Run, as well as Dot Nebel were added.  Snowmaking was also added to all terrain Algonquin and over, except Cayuga.

Also, does anyone have any pictures of, or remember riding the original fixed grip Superchief?  There are no pictures on the internet of it anywhere.  Doppelmayr converted it to high speed in 2006.  The CTEC chairs and tower tubes were reused.  They replaced everything else.  The rest of the equipment was reinstalled at Catamount, where it operates today as the Ridge Quad.

Sno... any additions or corrections to this piece are appreciated:

http://directory.nyskiblog.com/Belleayre-Ski-Center-td4655063.html

Found one picture of the original Superchief, mislabeled as Tomahawk on chairlift.org.  I can tell because there are snow guns in this picture, and Tomahawk never has a trail directly under it.  Well there is a glade, but no snowmaking of course on that.

The last time I skied at Belleayre was in 1992 and I remember skiing the Deer or Doe run. I remember skiing just the top part and then dropping off into the trees in between the switchbacks. It was deep my last two or three seasons back east and the tree skiing was good or at least I thought so then.

I went there a few times until I discovered Plattekill.

I thought that the learning/beginner area was really nice for teaching and the trees were well spaced without the rocks that you have at Huntah. I have also always thought that it was a shame that the ski area didn't drop all the way into town creating a unique ski town experience that you don't really find out east. I think that could have created an area with at least 1800 vertical feet and it might have made it the leading ski resort in the Cats and have a serious positive economic impact for that small depressed town.

Well-researched Snow.  Spot on RA.  An instructor felt pretty strongly the high mount expansion would happen.  I think that would get the vert up (at least skiable vert) but would not go into the village you mentioned (called Pine Hill).  

snoloco wrote

 There was a double chair that ran on the Superchief line from the lodge,

Yeah, and now that lift carries people to the north side of Plattekill

snoloco wrote

Also, does anyone have any pictures of, or remember riding the original fixed grip Superchief?  

I still ride it a lot. LOL

Snoloco:

http://www.chairlift.org/bellayre.html

" SUMMIT DOUBLE 2 (HALL) - Built in 1977 to replace the original Roebling double. This lift was replaced
by the Superchief quad in 1999. It has been relocated to Plattekill as the double chair."

Yes, well aware of that relocation, but not what I was referring to.

The current lift on that line is a 2006 install.  There was a CTEC fixed quad there from 1999 to spring 2006.

Some parts were reused in the current lift, and the rest went to Catamount.

That fixed quad was terrible . They ran it slow so novices could load easily.

I figured it was a mess.  Lots of low level skiers on the current lift.  Rarely if ever does a state run mountain replace a 7 year old lift.

Since Superchief is about 5100 feet long, it would be one hell of a long slow ride at 400-450 fpm.  About 13-15 minutes.

Still would've been better than the current lift being closed all weekend.  Was closed for maintenance all of yesterday and today, plus most of Saturday.

My son and I had an incredible day on Friday at Belleayre - lots of powder stashes all over the mountain - but I am not surprised to hear about the lift problems.

Both Lift 7 and Superchief went down for significant periods of time Friday AM (driving us over to Tomahawk which had some great stashes, so not all bad) and then there were running off and on all day, creating long lines, especially at Superchief. The conditions were so great we didn't mind but can't imagine what the weekend was like w/o Superchief not running.

I didn't go on Friday.

The line for Lift 7 was about 5 minutes tops today, and maybe a bit longer on Saturday.  Tomahawk never had a line.  Before Superchief crapped out, 7 didn't have a line.

I was thinking of some ways to improve skier flow around Belleayre.

Personally, I think the worst bottleneck is the area near the Overlook lodge where all the runs in the Superchief area funnel together.  People just starting their run from the lodge also funnel in and make it a shit show on busy days.

There are bypasses to this bottleneck that aren't all that well realized.  My goal would be to make them more obvious.

Where Ashokan branches off of Roaring Brook, I would put up big signs directing people that way to get to the lift.  The current route would only be used by people wanting to access the lodge from that trail.  Most of the skier traffic is lapping that run off the Superchief, so it would keep all of them away from the lodge bottleneck.  I would also relocate the deck to make that section of the run wider, and make the second route down to Superchief more obvious.  That would be Chinook to The Canyon.

Another bad 4 way intersection is the one between Expressway and Tomahawk Crossing.  That would be a good location for a tunnel, because both trails are relatively narrow, and few people if any are skiing between them.

Howe's Highway should be closed between Belleayre run and Algonquin (where it becomes Tomahawk Crossing).  Very dangerous for skiers to be trying to cross Belleayre Run, as many people (including myself) ski fast on that run.  They can always reopen it if Lift 7 isn't running for whatever reason.

The Super Chief is proving to be pretty problematic the past 3 years. I believe this is the third year in a row that the Super Chief was almost completely disabled for the duration of a holiday weekend during the year. I believe two years ago both Tomahawk and Super Chief were DOA on a holiday for atleast half the day.

Sno: In regards to the pictures of the old fixed grip Chief, a few years ago I went searching for image of the lift and these were the only photos I have ever been able to find:

evantful wrote

The Super Chief is proving to be pretty problematic the past 3 years. I believe this is the third year in a row that the Super Chief was almost completely disabled for the duration of a holiday weekend during the year. I believe two years ago both Tomahawk and Super Chief were DOA on a holiday for atleast half the day.

Here's my theory for why that lift is so unreliable for a 2006 install.

Many parts from the original fixed grip were reused.  All of the towers were reused, and they also reused the chairs, but with new hanger arms and grips.

The lift uses Doppelmayr DT-104 grips and UNI-GS terminals, but with the old CTEC chairs.  I can tell because one of the chairs has blue paint on it that exactly matches the old color of the towers.  Those chairs are different than the two basic designs Doppelmayr was offering at the time.  Most lifts with the UNI-GS terminals use the chair style that the East Peak Express at Windham has.  The chairs on Belleayre's Superchief are a completely different design, that I don't believe was ever designed to work with those grips.  It's weighted and balanced differently.  This can likely cause excessive wear and tear on the terminal machinery, and falsely trip sensors, causing all the problems.

I remember Windham's East Peak Express (also a 2006 install and same design expect for the chairs) to be very tempermental in its early years, but seems to be running well for the most part now.  

Pretty cool to see those pictures of the old lift.  Do you know what year they were taken.  My guess is they were taken around 2003-2004, judging by how old the lift looks (not brand new, but still relatively young).  Then again, it was only a 7 year old lift when it was removed and sent to Catamount.

That is some gradeA detective work, Sno.  You're probably correct. That sort of mix and match engineering often leads to problems- Penny wise but pound foolish.

Almost every Doppelmayr lift equipped with UNI-GS terminals has these chairs.  Photo credits to chairlift.org, lift credits to Windham Mountain Resort.


Another interesting piece of lift history is that Doppelmayr and CTEC actually merged together, which is why the Superchief was modified with Doppelmayr parts.

When the companies merged, they offered two detachable products.  Doppelmayr's UNI-G (used on Whiteface's Facelift), and CTEC's Stealth 3 (used on Stratton's Sunrise and Shooting Star lifts).  In 2003, the combined company introduced the UNI-GS, which was based on the UNI-G, but more compact and with a slightly different appearance.  This replaced the Stealth 3, which was discontinued after the 2004 construction season.  The UNI-GS was discontinued after the 2009 construction season, and only the UNI-G offered.  It might've been discontinued due to unreliability on lifts that have them.

The original Superchief was a pre-merger CTEC, so if it was designed for a detachable conversion, it was probably intended to be converted using Stealth terminals instead of any Doppelmayr design.  Because the conversion was done in 2006, the Stealth 3 had already been discontinued for 2 years.