Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

Ethan Snow
I personally think the "Belleayre West" lift is a horrible idea. It's going to break up Deer run, and create a very confusing mess of trails over there. I mean how many lifts does a mountain that size need? I am all for connecting the old high mount area, but I think it can be done without another lift bisecting the two areas.
I'll take boilerplate ice over wet snow any day
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

Ethan Snow
In reply to this post by snoloco
I'm pretty sure there's plenty of slope to come off the top of Highmount and connect back into the lower part of Deer Run at some point.

I'll take boilerplate ice over wet snow any day
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

snoloco
As I mentioned earlier, they no longer run the Tomahawk Quad midweek.  The capacity is just not needed when you can walk right on the gondola and often get the car to yourself.

However, this is an issue for intermediate skiers as the gondola has no midstation and there is no headwall bypass trail on that side of the mountain.  This means that intermediates can't ski the lower portions of Dot Nebel, Seneca, Pepacton, Peekamoose, and Espous when Tomahawk isn't running.  There was a trail called Western Bend planned at one time that would come off of Deer Run and go down to the Tomahawk mid station.  However, it crosses Dot Nebel and couldn't be open during racing.

The solution would be to widen and add snowmaking to a portion of Cayuga between Dot Nebel and Deer Run so that when Dot Nebel can't be crossed they can just go down that and back onto Deer Run.  For the occasional midweek race they'd probably just run Tomahawk because having hundreds of racers all bombing the bridge trail to the gondola would be a bad idea and it would get scraped to bare ice real fast.
I've lived in New York my entire life.
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

Bandit
In reply to this post by Ethan Snow
Ethan Snow wrote
I'm pretty sure there's plenty of slope to come off the top of Highmount and connect back into the lower part of Deer Run at some point.
Not really. Once you drop down over there you're heading the wrong direction with the fall line going the wrong way. Highmount access is where deer run makes the right turn and heads back towards dot. Any way back from highmount would basically have to parallel deer run.

So it would need a lift for sure. Having the new gondola and a lift from highmount would be awesome and really expand the skiing. As it is the gondola is already going to improve coordination of highmount runs :)
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

snoloco
You can easily get back to Deer Run from the top of Highmount but a lift is definitely needed on that section.  It would be flat but could be done.

The Belleayre West lift would be useful in adding more full length blue runs which Belleayre needs more of.  Right now most of their terrain is headwall runout where the top is too steep for intermediates and the bottom is really short.  That's part of why the put the gondola in so they could make a long blue that went top to bottom.  It would definitely result in some trail crossings on Deer Run which could be an issue.  It should be a HSQ and would be about 4200 feet long in the alignment that's proposed.
I've lived in New York my entire life.
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

evantful
Just for fun, old proposed build out:

Belleayre UMP Map
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

Harvey
Administrator
This post was updated on .
The original gondi plan had a midstation, I didn't know.

Sno... how long is the Belle gondi lift ride in minutes?
"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

Bandit
In reply to this post by snoloco
snoloco wrote
You can easily get back to Deer Run from the top of Highmount but a lift is definitely needed on that section.  It would be flat but could be done.
I originally read Ethan’s message as actually skiing some of highmount then cutting back over. Can absolutely catch deer run from the top of highmount but it’ll have to be pretty close to the top.

Harvey, I read it’s a 7 minute ride. I turned ski tracks on for a couple runs and one ride said 8:03 other said 7:53. Don’t recall if it stopped at all on those rides. Lift 6 is about 5:50.
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

snoloco
In reply to this post by Harvey
It's about 6700 feet long so with time in the terminals it should be about 7 minutes at 1000 fpm.  And I'm pretty sure they run it at full speed.  Doppelmayr says the ride time is 7:22 which includes time in the terminals from the 90 degree point in one to the 90 degree point in the other.  Superchief doesn't run at full speed and is 5200 feet long with about a 6 minute ride which means it's running around 850.

The original gondola plan had a lower stage running up to where Tomahawk begins and then an upper stage replacing Tomahawk.  This was axed because angle stations are ridiculously expensive.  It would've added at least 2mil to the cost of the gondola.  And it would have reduced lift capacity on the West Side.  They switched to a single stage straight line gondola and keeping the existing Tomahawk lift.
I've lived in New York my entire life.
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

snoloco
I got some pictures of the trail intersection where the new trail departs from the bottom of Tomahawk.

Looking up from below.  Look for the orange ropes between the wooden poles.  If you stay on the upper side of that. you'll get to Tomahawk, otherwise you take the bridge trail to the gondola.


Same thing but a side view from right behind where Tomahawk starts.


Seems like the drop after the bridge is mostly filled in with fill, but they still needed to fill some in with snow.
I've lived in New York my entire life.
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

snoloco


On the first busy day with the gondola it appears management is still getting used to things.

Only one lane in the queue and no singles line.  Cars going up not even close to full since not scanning tickets fast enough.  Many loading issues occurring with people not getting loaded in time before the doors close, so it's slowing down and stopping a bit.

Hopefully they work out these kinks in the future.
I've lived in New York my entire life.
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

Bandit
Ha snoloco you must be right behind or ahead of me. They had that long line with one person scanning and cars not going up full and I was thinking the same thing. Then they sent out another ticket scanner and it ate the line right up.
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

JTG4eva!
In reply to this post by snoloco
Damn....a Belle apologist, huh?  WF pulled that shit you’d be ripping management a new one and swearing off the place!
We REALLY need a proper roll eyes emoji!!
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

raisingarizona
If Whiteface is no good with 65% of its terrain open but Belle has 90% open its ok even if WF’s 65% is still 40% more terrain than Belles 100%?
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

snoloco
WF has had a gondola for 18 years so there's no excuse if something like this happened.  Belleayre has had one for about a week and it's never been busy yet so of course I'm going to cut them some slack.

The other concern of mine is since the gondola starts in a beginner area and this line cuts through a ski through section of the base is someone losing control and plowing into the people in line.

On the plus side it doesn't appear the gondola will be underutilized.
I've lived in New York my entire life.
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

raisingarizona
I can see what you were getting at Sno on how when the expansion is completed it’s going to make more sense getting people up and around to different areas.
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

Bandit
Sno check your email. I’m @ overlook bar come in for a drink.
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

Benny Profane
In reply to this post by raisingarizona
raisingarizona wrote
If Whiteface is no good with 65% of its terrain open but Belle has 90% open its ok even if WF’s 65% is still 40% more terrain than Belles 100%?

Wait, what?




That picture is sad. In more than one way.
funny like a clown
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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

DomB
In reply to this post by snoloco
It seemed to me like it will take them some time to figure out how to load it and set the lines.   I would think they will get there.  

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Re: Belleayre Gondola Discussion Thread

snoloco
Someone complained on facebook about the lack of a singles line and they said they'd be ordering more rope to make one and have more lanes so that the line doesn't back up across a ski through section of the base.

I saw one of Doppelmayr's door safety features work today.  A group of snowboarders were too slow to load and one of them got caught in the door as it was closing.  If something blocks the doors and they fail to close and lock properly, the lift automatically senses it and stops before the cabin can even get out of the terminal.  Then one of the lifties uses a pole with a hook on it to manually close and lock the doors before the lift is restarted.  This ensures that no cabin ever goes up with doors that aren't closed properly and that all the passengers have safely loaded.
I've lived in New York my entire life.
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