Belleayre to be transferred to ORDA?? - Latest 3/27/12

http://www.poststarnews.com/news/x586829021/LEGISLATURE-TO-AUTHORIZE-BELLEAYRE-TRANSFER-TO-ORDA

Bonacic's press release lists the conditions for the transfer:
*A requirement that Belleayre be continued as a year round tourism destination with a level of capital investment to that Belleayre can be operated, maintained, and improved in a similar manner to Whiteface and Gore;
*One ORDA Board Member, each for Delaware and Ulster Counties (Governor Cuomo had initially proposed just one Board member to be shared by both counties);
*An increase in ORDA’s Community Advisory Board from 15 to 19.  Two additional members would be appointed by the Delaware County Board of Supervisors and two by the Ulster County Legislature;
*A requirement for a local ORDA office be located at Belleayre;
*A requirement that one of two ORDA Vice-Chairs be a resident of Ulster or Delaware Counties (the person chosen would be chosen by the recommendation of the Town Boards of the Towns of Middletown and Shandaken).

Thanks for posting this BIg D.

Are these requirements, like "year-round" going to be law?

This is an interesting statement by JK. I wonder how he defines "protected:"

Joe Kelly, Chairman of the Coalition to Save Belleayre said, “I am pleased that Belleayre will be freed of the DEC’s disinterest.  The Coalition looks forward to partnering with ORDA, which is led by a long-time Catskills native, Ted Blazer.  We are pleased that employees will be protected.   It was not just the weather that has been rough on the ski industry this year, there has been a demoralizing factor because the agency that Belleayre was run by, really was not interested in the ski business.  Things can only get better.  I appreciate the efforts of Senator Bonacic, Assemblyman Cahill, and the Governor for spending so much time on Belleayre in this year’s budget process.”

Selleayre!   

What happened - they forgot to ask for a appropriate share of the Chevy courtesy vehicles?  Give the new orda office lackey a desk in the janitors closet. Does Gore have an Orda outpost office???  JEEZ.

This is a HUGE mistake and is going to bite WF and Gore in the backside.  To show how strong they feel about this down in the Cat this guys is quoted as saying Ulster County Legislature Chairman Terry Bernardo said, “We can do no worse under ORDA than we did under the DEC"  Well there is a vote of confidence that they won't drag down the rest of Orda.  The place is a loser and even their biggest boosters don't think the they can lose more money then now.  Wow I feel so much better now.

They should have appointed a board member from Greene County where Hunter and Windam are to prevent Bell from dumping underpriced lift tickets in the market.  Without doing that this place is going to lose even more money.

Govt stupidity at work.

Has anyone seen the $ budget for Orda?  It needs to be significantly higher than the past few years to compensate for taking on Bell

Anyone have any idea what Bell's DEC budget was this year?  I don't think DEC broke it out but is there a way to estimate their operation costs plus their loss?

If the Orda budget does not increase a great deal or shrinks be prepared for March closings becoming the rule and not the exception.

Budget was just released and Whiteface's share has been reduced by $250000!!!




Sorry Aussie you had that coming!
Why worry about something you cant do anything about...

ausable skier wrote

With that comment Aussie will take off and not grace this forum until next fall.

What happened to this?

Sorry ... I just couldn't resist!

But seriously, for all those who are Belleayre, Gore & Whiteface skiers, I sincerely hope you're over-reacting to all of this, and that everything works out OK. Don't know if it will, but I for one, will try to be optimistic.
Now ... with that said ... I've got to go out and buy my ticket for the $540M Mega-Millions jackpot!!!

Both you and I knew that I could not resist chiming in on Bell news.   If you win the lottery maybe you can afford to change the constitution and buy WF.

Not sure if the other poster was serious about the budget $'s or was messing with me.  If the proposed budget for Orda is not increased to make up for carrying Bell the loser the the skiing experience for Gore and WF skiers is going to get way worse.  There are some of you that are good at digging up budget details - please post them here.

Why worry? Because until its passed we all can do something (at least if you live in NYS).  Contact your state house and senate representative and urge them to fund Orda.

The reason all along I have been against Bell is that I feared that they would ask Orda to run 3 ski areas for the price of two.  Things have been cut as much as they can.  If WF and Gore had the budgets of the Pataki years now we would all still be skiing this weekend.  A bad budget and we will be seeing more of the same next year even in a good snow year.  You can kiss skiing in April goodbye for good.  Less lifts running, less preventive mait, less snow making, heck why not just close in mid march every year because the later in the season the less day passes sold.  Thats the future of a 3 ski area for the price of two budget.

I'm changing my tune on this. I think in the long run the skiers will win... just the tax payers will get hosed. Not how I'd like to do business, but whatever.

BTW, beaches and parks are no longer free in lots of places this summer. I just heard that paying for parking is no longer going to cut it going forward and we're going to have to buy wristbands. Anyway, they're beta testing this stuff at beaches near you... hopefully some of that extra revenue goes into a slush fund so we can ski october to may though, when we can't swim!

A birdie told me bell cut their ad budget which cut their skier visits directly.  Because of politics and pressure from Hunter and Wyndem who smartly contribute to slush funds (campaigns) of the guys who make the budget occur.   Sadly I don't see a.y upside to bell joining ORDA and will apologize first if this is not a 3 ski areas for the price of 2 deal.  

ausable skier wrote

The reason all along I have been against Bell is that I feared that they would ask Orda to run 3 ski areas for the price of two.

Hey, anything could happen, but I really doubt this is the plan.  ORDA has proven to be a very effective lobbying group, and it clearly would not be to their advantage to have the entire current Belleayre budget cut. If that was happening, you can bet they'd be fighting that full force.  I bet the ORDA brass has a pretty good idea of what is going to happen budgetwise and they've accepted it as ok. Maybe not great, but ok.  

I'm sure there will be more cuts, but I don't have any reason to believe they are going to exceed cuts in other areas of the budget.  All kinds of stuff is getting cut and I don't think it's reasonable to expect that skiing will be spared.

Maybe WF and Gore skiers won't like seeing the near term spending on capital improvements on Bell, but I don't think a renovated Belleayre with 200-250k skier visits paying full freight loses money.

Anyway, the beauty of ORDA is that when they overspend they can wink and nod at NYS and say "you made us take this loser" and NYS will graciously give them however many millions when it's politically and economically more expedient for them to do so. These guys are all big money political pros, and the developers in the Catskills really go along with that. The money will talk, and the days of 50 FT mechanics there are long over.

Soooo........ do ya think they'll announce the triple season ticket soon?

In addition to the appropriation for operating expenses, the state has allocated $5 million for capital improvements at ORDA.
$1 million specifically for improvements at Belleayre.

http://www.oxygenfedsport.com/2012/03/orda-to-take-control-of-belleayre/

I spent some time researching, but couldn't see how the other $4 million will be disbursed.

In 2010, Belleayre lost $1 million.  ORDA lost around $13 million.

It'd be nice to get a baby changing table in the men's room at Mt van Hoevenberg.

It is hilarious that what is a profitable venture everywhere else in the world turns to a money-suck in government hands. This is mismanagement, my friends. I'm not saying I want belleayre to be like top tier resorts (I love the rustic feel and family friendliness of the Belle), but seriously, how hard is it to make money in this business? Vail is snapping up resorts left and right and making millions in the process.

Its easy: Put an ATM on premesis
More advertising (most people that I mention Belleayre to have never heard of it)
A few more services (food that is not straight out of a fryer, mountain photographers, etc. etc.)

While I don't welcome the crowds of hunter or windham, I want Belleayre to succeed in the long run, I love this mountain and buy a season pass as it is the best option in the area for me.

" how hard is it to make money in this business? "

Really? Incredibly hard. Why do you think the Northeast (and other parts of the country) is littered with failed "ghost" ski areas everywhere? Don't be too surprised to see a ski hill or two go under before the start of next season. If you had a peek into every CFOs book after this winter in almost everywhere in the country, I'll bet you a hundred bucks that at least 75% show a loss for this season, especially here in the Northeast and Colorado and Tahoe.

Vail makes a ton of money from real estate. And the recent purchase of Kirkwood was just too much of an opportunity to pass up at the price they got it. No brainer, for a world class ski hill just an hour's drive from one they already own.

And Belleayre wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for your tax dollars.

Benny Profane wrote

I'll bet you a hundred bucks that at least 75% show a loss for this season...

I'll bet a donut that this is a conservative estimate for this season in the northeast.

That said, I think it is quite possible that Bell could be more profitable (less unprofitable?) with tighter management.

Harvey44 wrote

more profitable (less unprofitable?) with tighter management.

You, sir, should run for office.

Seriously, has anyone heard of a triple pass yet? When Vail bought Kirkwood, they combined the passes immediately. Like, in the friggin' press release. If I knew I could get Gore, WF, and Bellayre with one pass around 700 bucks, I'm in.