CARV

My perspective this thing is stupid in so many ways

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/333155164/carv-the-worlds-first-wearable-that-helps-you-ski

Almost all intermediate and many advanced skiers including instructors are balanced aft.  Would you want a electronic voice screaming in your ear every turn that you suck and need to get forward but can't tell you how to do it ir why?

It would need to be integrated into a custom footbed to have any potential for good skiers.  Just about everyone  I know skis in a custom footbed.  But that would like mess up the software as each skiers footbed would be different and the pressure  sensing would not be able to adjust.

I see some application for racers but the footbed issue kills that off

They need to find better skiers for the video as they were pretty weak
 They were trying to crowdfund it and it looks like they got enough suckers um I mean investors to try their money away.

They are based in the UK. 'Nuff said.

LOL Coach I agree. I don't need (want) a machine telling me I suck.

Where's the video? Couldn't find it.

https://www.facebook.com/getCarv/videos/957908900923142/

I would say it looks interesting. I think there is a market out there that gets to ski only a few times a year and struggles to go beyond terminal intermediate that will pay a few hundred on something that might help them get feedback for when they are not doing what they learned in ski lessons. The muscle memory required for skiing takes a lot of time and if they can use this to reinforce the moves that would be helpful. I can see a lot of things which will be issues with the design but I think there may be something there.

I do agree that if you insist on skiing with a custom footbed you are likely not going to use it, but then you probably don't need it either. The market for this product is not the guy skiing off piste, in the woods or in the bumps, the market is the guy who can't get off the groomed trail, probably the Euro skier who drops a ton of money on a vacation in the alps and on ski lessons. Likely a good enough size market. If I were starting this company I would immediately start thinking what my exit strategy is.

Here is a product Rossi has already picked up: http://www.gizmag.com/rossignol-piq-ski-sensor-review/42518/

The market is early stage at this point. Who wudda thunk you would want to walk around with a telephone that drops calls and sometimes works and also acts as a PDA, and webserver and you would pay $150/month for it - sounds like a stupid product to me...

It's definately targeted at Brits

There also is the issue of learning styles.  I've been in Psia clinics where the examiner / course conductor wants to ski next to or behind me and yells feedback.  I absolutely hate that.  My brain can't process that and focus on whatever it is I am supposed to be doing.  

This could help a feeler feel bad vs good but I think a feeler would find it annoying.  I'm sure they think they are going for analytical type learners but they easily can become overloaded with info and can't process and perform at the same time.  Clearly this was not designed by someone that understood how people learn.

Do people get any value from video? Wouldn't this be like that? Look at the data afterwards to make corrections.

Video is very helpful.  This will just be a bunch of data so I see it could help racers but intermediates won't know what the movement connection to the data is.

Coach Z wrote

Video is very helpful.  This will just be a bunch of data so I see it could help racers but intermediates won't know what the movement connection to the data is.

Do you think they may have thought about that, maybe they will sell a coaching service to go along with it.
Maybe you should contact them, see about moonlighting as an online ski coach. Heck, maybe you should buy it and charge extra to your privates to use it and interpret the data - could be an added bonus. It might tell you things you can't even see.

It's primary purpose is to tell you if you are in the backseat.  Every level 3 cert can see that by watching a few turns.

Coach Z wrote

It's primary purpose is to tell you if you are in the backseat.  Every level 3 cert can see that by watching a few turns.

So what you just said is that the only thing you have to do to ski like Bode Miller is get forward. I guess I should be on the US ski team then. Maybe you can join me.

Coach Z wrote

It's primary purpose is to tell you if you are in the backseat.  Every level 3 cert can see that by watching a few turns.

I didn't get that impression.  At least, certainly not for freestyle or racing.  While CARV is supposedly for any type of skier, including Casual, they seem to have been working with professionals during the development process that's been going on for several years already.  Spent a week with USSA at Mammoth in early May.

From May 3 Kickstarter Update:

"We are pleased to announce that we have been working with coaches from the U.S. Ski Team to help improve our technique recognition algorithms and test hypotheses the coaches of the team have had around skiing technique. It’s a great privilege to have the coaches' input on Carv. We have also found the Carv hardware gives the coaches some different perspective, as it gives quantitative information about the combination of change of pressure distribution and edge angle during a ski turn. This is a great opportunity for both us and the coaches to gain insights into skiing. We’ll make sure to post any interesting findings from our research in future updates

Test in Mammoth Mountain, California

We’ve had to shuffle around our plan and dates in order to work alongside the USSA. Jamie and Pruth are now in Mammoth Mountain, CA (instead of the Alps, sorry European backers!) to conduct our next set of tests and trials with some fresh new prototypes. This will help to make Carv a better product for everyone. For any ski instructors and coaches in the area, this is a chance to test Carv and the coaching app: there’s still enough time before we ship to implement your feedback! We’re in Mammoth from 3rd to 9th May. Though please be aware we are likely to be quite busy with the USSA so cannot guarantee we can provide a test. If you are in the area and interested in testing the coaching system, please let us know by sending us a message."


The Kickstarter raised over $200K for a campaign that only needed $50K to succeed.  Met the goal within the first week.  Will be interesting to see what happens next season when early adopters have the CARV in hand.  Delivery is supposed to happen in Nov 2016.  Early Bird pricing was under $200 for a pair.

The Kickstarter FAQ cover subscription fees and the boot inserts.  There is an optional fee for "CARV Coach" for those who want to do linked video analysis and use the iCloud for video storage.  The inserts are 1mm thick and can be used with custom footbeds "between the liner and shell or between the insole and liner."

PeeTex wrote

Coach Z wrote

It's primary purpose is to tell you if you are in the backseat.  Every level 3 cert can see that by watching a few turns.

So what you just said is that the only thing you have to do to ski like Bode Miller is get forward. I guess I should be on the US ski team then. Maybe you can join me.

Bode skis quite a bit in the backseat --- tail of the skis are fast, it's just that not everyone can hang on to them like Bode does/can

If it's custom footbed compatible that does give it more potential for racers which I noted several times.  If they could synch the data to video it would be great for racers.  

I still question its utility for intermediates.

I think if you had data and indexed it to and the gates in the course it might useful, but otherwise no.

This a little off topic, but I saw some research a couple of years ago about using footbeds that vibrate at a level and frequency that is barely perceptible helped some old people balance.  Apparently it stimulated the nervous system just enough to make them a little more aware of their balance.  I wonder if something like that could help you learn skiing?

MM

Coach Z: it's all your fault that I'm wasting time learning more about CARV and Motion Metrics.

For a sense of the early years of experimentation that led to the current version of CARV being made for delivery in Nov 2016, check out this article:

http://www.epicski.com/a/motionmetrics-your-digital-ski-coach

Pretty clear that working with HAX made a big difference.  It was obvious that by the time of the 2016 Kickstarter, Motion Metrics already had plans in place to ramp up production.  The goal was $50K, but will professional marketing behind the campain, over $200K was raised.  They also started an Indiegogo campaign to allow more people to pre-order for a higher price that is still a discount over the expected retail price.  That batch is scheduled to be delivered in Jan 2017.

Coach Z wrote

If it's custom footbed compatible that does give it more potential for racers which I noted several times.  If they could synch the data to video it would be great for racers.  

I still question its utility for intermediates.

The idea behind the Coach software is synching video with data generated by CARV.  If you look at the video clips farther down the Kickstarter page, can see data superimposed on the video for the freestyle and racing clips.

Agree that few recreational intermediates would have the determination required to set up regularly enough.  But as long as it seems like fun, the price point is low enough that there will probably be some intermediates willing to spend the money.  Most likely the ones who get a new ski jacket every season, plus pay full price for their skis.