Casino invasion

Horrible idea:

http://www.nynjtc.org/issue/new-york-casinos-impact-our-state-parks-and-trails

Definitely a horrible idea.I keep thinking this "Let's build Casinos!" cash generating idea will die a deserved death as Atlantic City crumbles and the communities surrounding casinos continue to suck (with the exception of Vegas which is a true destination). But for some reason, governments keep thinking that casinos are some huge moneymaker that doesn't negatively impact communities.

If these states are so desperate for cash, maybe they should ask Colorado and Washington how the weed legalization is going.

It's a zero sum game at best.

mattchuck2 wrote

...... cash generating idea will die a deserved death as Atlantic City crumbles and the communities surrounding casinos continue to suck (with the exception of Vegas which is a true destination). But for some reason, governments keep thinking that casinos are some huge moneymaker that doesn't negatively impact communities.

Yea, it's kinda weird. Atlantic city gambling is crumbling, but the Indian ones aren't. Are they detracting from AC?

I agree on the negative impacts. I know a few people who spend WAY too much time and money in the racino. Local paper once had a pic of a retired guy gambling there who goes everyday.

The "Indian" ones are why Atlantic City is crumbling. Why go to AC when you can go to Foxwoods? But just looking at the areas surrounding Turning Stone, Senaca, etc., there is absolutely zero money going in to making the areas nice places to live or visit.

Why take an already nice area and turn it into a gambling haven?

mattchuck2 wrote

The "Indian" ones are why Atlantic City is crumbling. Why go to AC when you can go to Foxwoods? But just looking at the areas surrounding Turning Stone, Senaca, etc., there is absolutely zero money going in to making the areas nice places to live or visit.

Why take an already nice area and turn it into a gambling haven?

Exactly. Turning Stone itself is amazingly beautiful, but they put ZERO dollars back into the community. I've only been there for a couple of Pro-Ams, and have walked into the Casino, but they don;t have 1 red cent of mine. The golf courses there are some of the nicest I've ever played. They're obviously making BIG BUCKS off of people. Too bad they don;t have to pay tax.

Legalize weed, tax it, and we're good to go.

Snowballs wrote

mattchuck2 wrote

...... cash generating idea will die a deserved death as Atlantic City crumbles and the communities surrounding casinos continue to suck (with the exception of Vegas which is a true destination). But for some reason, governments keep thinking that casinos are some huge moneymaker that doesn't negatively impact communities.

Yea, it's kinda weird. Atlantic city gambling is crumbling, but the Indian ones aren't. Are they detracting from AC?

I agree on the negative impacts. I know a few people who spend WAY too much time and money in the racino. Local paper once had a pic of a retired guy gambling there who goes everyday.

That's what the guy wants to do...so what? You want more govt. regs. telling us what we can and can not do?

mattchuck2 wrote

The "Indian" ones are why Atlantic City is crumbling.

That and the 4 casinos coming to NY in the near future. Building the Revel casino in AC 2 years ago was not looking at the long game.

mattchuck2 wrote

 But just looking at the areas surrounding Turning Stone, Senaca, etc., there is absolutely zero money going in to making the areas nice places to live or visit.

Why take an already nice area and turn it into a gambling haven?

It's a business not a social experiment. If the Turning Stone is operating a legal, profitable business then maybe the surrounding areas need to figure a why to benefit from the Turning Stones presence.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

It's a business not a social experiment.

I get that, but if the State is getting into the business, shouldn't it try to do something for the surrounding communities? I guess it's the same thing as ORDA. Should they run it strictly as a business and shut down all the unprofitable venues and focus on the ones that make money? Or does the fact that the surrounding communities benefit immensely mean something?

I get that Cuomo wants to make money off of casinos. But usually the argument is that the casinos will bring benefits (jobs, private business money, etc.) to the community and there just isn't much evidence to support that claim. Say what you want about ORDA, but Lake Placid and North Creek would be in a lot worse shape without them.

Are you arguing that the Harriman area would be better off with the casino? Or are you saying the surrounding area doesn't matter as long as the casino makes money? Sounds like you're saying #2, right?

HPD,,,huh? More nanny gov regs, no. How did you make that leap ?

Chances are people like him (everyday casino visitor) are gambling addicts. This leads to big problems.

mattchuck2 wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

It's a business not a social experiment.

I get that, but if the State is getting into the business, shouldn't it try to do something for the surrounding communities? I guess it's the same thing as ORDA. Should they run it strictly as a business and shut down all the unprofitable venues and focus on the ones that make money? Or does the fact that the surrounding communities benefit immensely mean something?

I get that Cuomo wants to make money off of casinos. But usually the argument is that the casinos will bring benefits (jobs, private business money, etc.) to the community and there just isn't much evidence to support that claim. Say what you want about ORDA, but Lake Placid and North Creek would be in a lot worse shape without them.

Are you arguing that the Harriman area would be better off with the casino? Or are you saying the surrounding area doesn't matter as long as the casino makes money? Sounds like you're saying #2, right?

ORDA is a govt. agency so I don't get how its the same thing at all.

Of course the people in the surrounding area matter its just not the casinos responsibility to take care of them. Its their responsibility to take care of themselves.

Snowballs wrote

HPD,,,huh? More nanny gov regs, no. How did you make that leap ?

Chances are people like him (everyday casino visitor) are gambling addicts. This leads to big problems.

Alcoholism can lead to big problems too. Should all bars be closed down because somebody might frequent one everyday and become an addict?

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

ORDA is a govt. agency so I don't get how its the same thing at all.

Of course the people in the surrounding area matter its just not the casinos responsibility to take care of them. Its their responsibility to take care of themselves.

I thought this was a Cuomo thing? Didn't he push this legalized gambling thing through? He allows all of these casinos and collects some portion for the state? I don't really know the specific rates or whatever, but the approval is going through the state gaming commission and Cuomo is arguing that it will "revitalize communities" or some shit.

(http://m.auburnpub.com/blogs/eye_on_ny/cuomo-explains-siting-process-for-upstate-new-york-casinos/article_e5ac0018-7d34-11e3-8144-001a4bcf887a.html?mobile_touch=true)

I'm just saying that if that's what Cuomo is expecting, he's going to be severely disappointed.

You seem to be arguing that they are private businesses and they don't owe shit to the community.

Okay, that's fine, but you're just making my point. It's not going to help the Harriman area at all and legalized weed would be a way better way to make money. I think we're agreeing, no?

mattchuck2 wrote

I'm just saying that if that's what Cuomo is expecting, he's going to be severely disappointed.

You may be right and if enough people blame Cuomo then he'll suffer the consequences. I for one agree with him and applaud him for trying to do something. I'm hoping the city of Rensselaer gets the capital district one. That town is in major decline and has been for awhile.

mattchuck2 wrote

You seem to be arguing that they are private businesses and they don't owe shit to the community.

They don't owe them. Before a private business moves into a community the people, through their elected representatives, has the business agree to terms as long as it legal (zoning, etc.). X, Y and Z have to happen that will benefit our area before you break ground. If the business wants to do more beyond that great, but they don't owe.

mattchuck2 wrote

Okay, that's fine, but you're just making my point. It's not going to help the Harriman area at all and legalized weed would be a way better way to make money. I think we're agreeing, no?

I don't know if weed would be better or not. That said I'm in favor of weed being legal. I'm in favor of adults doing anything they want as long as what they are doing doesn't harm anyone else.

Agreed on all points. I think we were saying the same thing the whole time.

Casinos suck on so many levels. Adults can do whatever they want, like hopefully fly to Vegas or take their gambling dollars elsewhere. It doesn't help the state to have them around: they don't create good jobs, and they want to take away our public lands that are good for the environment and recreation to do it.

There's a gold rush to get in on this because the politicians think it's free money, no doubt helped along by the high level of corruption that goes along with it. Great. Just the fact that they bait-and-switched the area they were talking about shows that this is a very dirty game.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but what you wrote seems more like a prejudicial rant then a thought out response.

ml242 wrote

It doesn't help the state to have them around: they don't create good jobs

I guess that would depend on your definition of a good job. I'm no expert so I went to salaries.com and searched casino salaries. The base salaries for some of the jobs aren't too bad, plus they make tips on top. I know quite a few ski area employees who would like to make casino wages. I guess it depends on one's perspective of what a good job is: salary, bennies, sense of accomplishment, enjoyment...etc.

ml242 wrote

they want to take away our public lands that are good for the environment and recreation to do it.

You're stating for a fact that most casinos are built on land once public, they are hurting the environment around them and people used to recreate on the land the casinos now stand on and now they can't? Again no expert, but my common sense tells me that's not entirely accurate.

ml242 wrote

There's a gold rush to get in on this because the politicians think it's free money, no doubt helped along by the high level of corruption that goes along with it. Great. Just the fact that they bait-and-switched the area they were talking about shows that this is a very dirty game.

There's a gold rush because they do generate money that can be taxed by the states they are in. Just like income from bars, liquor, tobacco...sin taxes some think.

How do you know there is a high level of corruption? We're not discussing the old Las Vegas of Bugsy Sagle. Also what was the bait and switch you're referring to and who did it? The casino application process going on in the Capital District seems pretty above board and transparent to me.  

I disagree with your assessment. That doesn't make either one of us a bad person.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

I disagree with your assessment. That doesn't make either one of us a bad person.

Did that even need to be said?

You picked apart my post pretty well, so I'll leave it to someone who's feeling more articulate than me to pick up the fight, there is no convincing me that it isn't just stealing money from the population and folding as soon as the tables turn.

Here's another insight, the market is so saturated now that some states are offering tax breaks to casinos.

http://the103advantage.com/casino-boom-pinches-northeastern-states/


Licensed to steal, basically.


I guess for me it's very cost benefit. There are many studies that prove they're a burden on local economies, so I would prefer politicians to take a more intellectually demanding approach to solving problems. Even if you think it's a good idea, I'd want to see some other proposals if the land is up for grabs to find the *best* idea.

ml242 wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

I disagree with your assessment. That doesn't make either one of us a bad person.

Did that even need to be said?

You picked apart my post pretty well, so I'll leave it to someone who's feeling more articulate than me to pick up the fight,

I guess not. Your op seemed kind of angry...didn't want any hard feelings.

I don't want to stay in the fight either.  Going out to drink and gamble now.

gloom, meet doom:

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20140901_ap_0a116513b9424f4da6a4867ed86f2ef9.html?c=r