Donut Hole

Does anyone know what causes the hole in the Eastern Adirondacks?

I'm watching the radar now and it looks like some precip is coming off the north end of Ontario and making it's way into the western side, as we normally see, but what causes the hole and the precip on the very eastern edge of NY and VT.  Is that all from Champlain?  Or is there some other affect here?

The stuff in Vt is uplift and is enhanced by Champlain

Also there might be precip in the dacks that the radar isn't seeing

Yeah, but typically that area of the NY receives less snow.

Is that due to a shadow from Tug Hill and the western Adirondacks?

If so, I'm a bit confused why the precip typically starts up again on the Greens.  Accumulation of moisture from Champlain and then orographic  uplift?

maybe Norester 27 will chime in, he is better versed on the Dacks..

There are several factors at work. Champlain is part of it, but really only in NoVT. It has nothing to do with why Big K gets more snow.

It's all topography. The orientation of Green Mtn spine is  a big reason. A long tall ridge that extends North/South, and at the northern end Northeast/Southwest which is even better.

Adk topography matters too. Its more like a bunch or disorganized peaks which disrupts the lake effect more and doesn't get nearly the orographics.  For Gore to get lake effect you really need some kind of upper level enhancement.

Just west of Gore is a mini spine, west of Indian Lake. (Would have been a great place to put Gore actually.) That often snags the last of the lake effect before it gets to North Creek.

Also Jason is correct Gore is very far from the center of both the BTV and ALY radars. So it gets more than it looks sometimes.

Good info.

Yes, I'm definitely very well versed in the "Snowy" range in the Adirondacks.  Also Newcomb, which is north of there tends to get significantly more snow than North Creek/River IME.

So what about KIllington?  And also the Taconics.  Where is their moisture coming from?  Lower Hudson valley?  

My impression is that most precip we see downstate comes up the coast, SW to NE and then up the Hudson valley. Greek and the very western cats supposedly benefit from lake effect that rolls all the way across the flatlands of CNY

Areas to the east get there moisture from coastal storm..

The green mountain winners Jay/Stowe/MRG Valley..They get it from the coastal moisture and then from the northerly orthographic effect after the low pulls away..

Stowe and MRG even hook up on west wind..

Yeah, it depends on which way the winds blows.

Typically you see it blowing due east and just blasting Tug Hill, Black RIver Valley and maybe or maybe not the Western Adirondacks.

If that shifts a little SE, then the Allegheny Plateau becomes just like the Tug.  You'll often see this driving on 90 to the East.  Around Syracuse a lot of times you'll really start to pick up some snow where there could be none on the east side of Rochester.  Then as soon as you pick up some elevation it starts to get really snowy.  I think the major Finger Lakes have something to do with this as well, because they create kind of a large flat region in between the hills of CNY and those WNY.  So that moisture has to travel a lot farther south of 90, and across those lakes to get that orograhic lift.

We get the same effect down in Bristol HIlls, then being the highest elevation areas for some ways to the east of Erie and south of Ontario.  Really depends on which way the wind is blowing.  There's also some serious microclimates down there.  You could have 2" of snow and 10 degree warmer temps in the valleys and 2' of snow and cooler temps up on the tops of the hills, which are kind of flat plateau like.  Makes it a little tricky for BC DH skiing as you don't want to drop down too far or you lose your snow pack.  I guess every mountain has that effect, but you really notice it on those hills because the high elevation, flat tops cover a large area.

My WF perspective (north central/eastern Adirondacks)

Costal Storms/Nor’ easters

Whiteface is located to far north and west for the predominate costal storm tracks and too far north and east for the prevailing lake effect.  

That said when we get hit - skiing rivals any thing on the east coast.

Killington is pretty much geographically located in prime nor’easter track

I grew up in northern rennselaer county which was bullseye for costal tracts.

Yeah, but it's strange.  Radar looks like it's showing snow around Big K area now, but not a coastal, is it?  Looked like wind was coming from the west, maybe NW.

The OP used the phrase "watching the radar now."  Right now has nothing to do with coastal. There is a NW flow and this is all about the topography. The same "system" blows over Gore and drops nothing and then does drop snow on Killington or Mt Snow.  It has to do with the alignment of the mountains. A north south ridge pulls snow out of the atmosphere that the disorganized Adks can't.

This difference is the primary reason why Killington get 250 and Gore gets 150.  Some of that may be noreasters but most is topography.

OK - actually think this makes sense now and I was wrong before.

The disorganization of the Adirondack peaks give East/West channels for the moist air to move through and not have to gain elevation to dump moisture.  The NW alignment of the peaks in a wall is directly perpendicular to the prevailing winds and thus there's nowhere for the moisture to go but up and over, and to dump.

I'd also assume this has something to do with the fact that Killington is 4k footer if one draws a line from Killington to the NE end of Lake Ontario, there are no real major ranges in the way.  The Snowy Mtn range is south and the High Peaks are north (Sewards, etc).

Despite all these technical reasons why the ADKs typically get less snow than VT, particularly NoVT, it's interesting how over the past few seasons WF has been pretty on par with the snowfall in VT, at least it seemed that way from checking ski reports as often as I do.  For example, wasn't it last year (or maybe it was the year before?) that Whiteface hit some kind of record of 289" for the season?  I know Stowe and Jay get 300+, but it seemed like storm to storm Whiteface was generally keeping up with the big numbers, like the big 44" dump that occured etc.

In terms of the original topic, I too notice the hole over the ADKs on the radar often, but many times just figure "bad image" and it's "probably snowing there too right now".

Even with NoVT getting more snow majority of the time - there ain't nothing that can compare to dropping into a slide at WF thinking "This is the east coast?!?"
 

Harvey and Co are correct.  Vermont gets a lot of snow from orographic uplift.  The spine is aligned North to south and a good NNW to NW wind slams the spine and produces snow.  The NW dacks also cash in, if Whiteface was NW of Lake Placid I believe they would average at least 50 inches more.  WF and even Gore do get some Lake Effect snow.  WF also receives some orographic snow but it's usually nickle and dime compared to VT or NNE.  The best wind for orographic or lake effect for WF is actually SW.  Having the PV sit North of the great lakes has produced epic lake / orographic snows for WF but rare.  Gore can also cash in on lake effect, they need a strong west wind.  However best lake effect is West of them toward old forge / speculator / moose river plains.  

NorEaster27 wrote

Harvey and Co are correct.  Vermont gets a lot of snow from orographic uplift.  The spine is aligned North to south and a good NNW to NW wind slams the spine and produces snow.  The NW dacks also cash in, if Whiteface was NW of Lake Placid I believe they would average at least 50 inches more.  WF and even Gore do get some Lake Effect snow.  WF also receives some orographic snow but it's usually nickle and dime compared to VT or NNE.  The best wind for orographic or lake effect for WF is actually SW.  Having the PV sit North of the great lakes has produced epic lake / orographic snows for WF but rare.  Gore can also cash in on lake effect, they need a strong west wind.  However best lake effect is West of them toward old forge / speculator / moose river plains.

This is why we need to campaign for everyone to dump there fill onto McCauley and bump it up to 1k vert! Not that it ski's bad as it is but still....imagine the possibilities

Kleetus man no way we want to keep Mccaulay the way it is no slopeside condos either!

Seems to me there are some BC touring options in the Snowy Mountain area and even some small slides. I’ve heard of some people skiing it but there is limited info. I was going to check it out this summer but the stars never aligned. Anyone on here ever been back there on skis?

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