Euro skiing

Just read the article on St Moritz in Powder.  I have to say that Powder has really stepped up its game in the quality of its writing.  It used to be mostly about hucking off cliffs but not seems to be much more mature probably since the Freeskier is cover the younger pipe and park crowd and they can focus on what's really important - Powder!

This piece on St Moritz really got me jonesing for skiing on the other side of the pond.  If you haven't had the opportunity it's a whole different experience.  At its worst it's on par with good eastern skiing mostly on piste (trails) but with much huger ski areas and vert.  It's not uncommon to ski 7000 vert feet in a run and up to 9000 sometimes. Which can take over an hour to ski.  There are places where you can do rings around a mountain range which take all day - in the Arlberg in Austria I've done the "White ring" and in the Alta Badia in Italy the "Sella Ronda".  I've also skied in different places where you ski so far from your starting place you need to take other transportation to get back including trains, buses, or paying a farmer with a horse to pull you back into town with a rope.  Also when the skiing is not great you can spend the afternoon eating a feast on a sun filled deck and drinking wine.  Once in La 3 Valle with a group of folks I work with that are from the French alps we ate and drank so long that we suddenly realized that we 2 Valleys and probably 10 skiing miles from our hotel with only 90 mins of daylight left.  As we boarded the final gondi to get us back into the right valley my friend bribed the lifties to let us on the lift after it was closed and told us to not speak English because if they knew we were from the US they might not let us do it.

When it snows the skiing is as good or even better than out west because except for places like Chamonix Europeans don't tend to ski off piste that much.  You can ski freshies days after storms where at Vail or Whistler its skied up by noon.  You can ski right next to pistes in powder that is being left alone but to get to the really good stuff you need to get with locals or hire a guide.  The Avy danger is much higher than out west due to the size and scope of the terrain and the attitudes about liability.  You go off piste and get hurt it's your issue not the ski areas.  Many places sell off piste insurance for $10-20 to cover rescue - this is a must buy.

I've skied St Anton (plus the Arlberg region), Chamonix, Cortina and almost all of the Dolomites in Italy, Courmeyer (the other side of Mt Blanc in Italy), The 3 Valleys in France, Garmisch in Germany, and Davos in CH.
I have not been to Zermatt and that is on my lifetime bucket list.  If anyone has been there please let me know how it was.  I'd also like to do a week along the French / Spanish border.

Après skiing is a key part of the experience.  It starts not at the bottom but in huts and snow / ice bars that line the bottom 1000 vert of the mountains.  I never ski and drink in the US but its mandatory over there and if you spend too long in the huts you'll find yourself finishing your day skiing down in the dark.

Hut Bar in St. Anton


Sorry for the long post but I needed to find something to fill up my extra hour that Day light savings time gave me today.

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My Euro favs continued

2.  St Anton and the Arlberg areas of Zurs and Lech.  Endless expert terrain but not as extreme as Chamonix.  You can get by without a guide and ski just about anything you can see.  Run with Teutonic precision - they make snow and groom the pistes as well as Okemo but let you rip off piste.

Rendl section of St Anton Austria - that little dot skiing in the bowl is me



3.  Davos.  Here is a very under the radar ski area that is better known for the super-rich which is what reminded me of the Power mag piece that got me started with this.  This is where the British royal family skis.  The off piste skiing is off the charts great and un touched by most of the clientele.  There are 5 ski areas in this town more off piste runs than you could ski in a month.  I was there for a week and it snowed twice both times at night and I skied more powder that week than any other week of my life because the powder lasts forever here and it was sunny every day.  When you take the train back to Zurich 45 mins after you leave Davos you will see ski runs that you did earlier in the week.

Davos Parsenne - lifts as far as you can see


3 days after it snowed – all those tracks are mine



4. The Dolomites.  This is not one ski area or town it’s a region.  Imagine ski areas linking Whiteface to Gore.  It's that big.  Some of it is just nice intermediate skiing but other sections like Arabba remind me of Chamonix.  If it snows you won't be able to ski much that day above timberline.  The best advice we got from our innkeepers was to ski down low those days and eat a 3 hour Italian lunch.

Wow Aussie, wicked cool tale. You're a lucky man.

I always wanted to ski the Alps.

ausable skier wrote

St Anton and the Arlberg areas of Zurs and Lech. Endless expert terrain but not as extreme as Chamonix.  You can get by without a guide and ski just about anything you can see.

+1

Lech, January 2005



Lech, January 2006

Thanks for posting this info.  While I haven't been skiing in Europe, all the reading I have done has made me realize how different the experience is than what we are used to in North America.

In reading about the skiing in Europe, specifically in the Dolomites, one key distinction that stands out to me is the lack of a ski area boundary that is the norm for North America.  Instead, there are massive mountain faces with barely a handful of groomed pistes. Ski anything outside of those pistes and you are on your own to contend with terrain that isn't controlled for avalanches and is full of potential hazards.  This fundamental difference in how they manage their terrain and how it shapes their skiing culture is fascinating to me.

Another distinction I find interesting is the scale of their skiable terrain.  In North America, we are accustomed to having a series of isolated resorts within a particular region.  In Europe, you have examples like Les Trois Vallées and the Dolomiti Superski where entire regions are linked by ski lifts and trails operated by a consortium.  Skiing almost becomes a form of transportation rather than a repetitious lapping of lifts.  I didn't grasp the scale of these places until I downloaded a 3d model of the Dolomiti Superski and started exploring.  Download the 3d software and the model here.  It's ridiculous.

I was planning on taking a trip to the Dolomites this season, but I have since postponed the trip for a variety of reasons.  I did a ton of reading so if I decide to pull the trigger next season I can easily do so with little preparation.  Instead, I'm going to spend some time in Utah and hit the LCC, Snowbasin, or whatever is skiing well at that moment.  Utah is definitely no substitution for the scale, and culture of the Dolomites, but it is almost guaranteed to be a great ski trip.

Thanks A.S.

Yurp is beyond words when comparing skiing to the N.A. experience.

Nothing like being able to stroll from your hotel with your skis over your shoulders to the lifts..and that's just the start.

BTW, really, really add Engelberg to your bucket list. Prolly too much hype in the media, but for good reason. Do it.
La Grave too. Just because. Oh, and Serre Chevalier aussi.

Great.  Now I want to spend the winter in the Alps....

T.D.

takeahike46er wrote

Another distinction I find interesting is the scale of their skiable terrain.  In North America, we are accustomed to having a series of isolated resorts within a particular region.  In Europe, you have examples like Les Trois Vallées and the Dolomiti Superski where entire regions are linked by ski lifts and trails operated by a consortium.  Skiing almost becomes a form of transportation rather than a repetitious lapping of lifts.  I didn't grasp the scale of these places until I downloaded a 3d model of the Dolomiti Superski and started exploring.  Download the 3d software and the model here.  It's ridiculous.

Yes compared to our little tiny eastern ski areas Europe is HUGE on a ridiculous scale.  The Dolmiti super ski area lift ticket covers 511 lift lifts and 1413 km of pistes and god nows how many acres of skiable terrian - if i had to guess its probably over 500,000 skiable acres.  Note by comparison Vail is 5289 skiable acres - yes I'm saying its 100 times bigger than Vail and that might be too small.  Every time i've been to Europe you have to plan your day well.  At lunch you need to start thinking about skiing back to where your bed is or you can end up trying to figure out the local bus system in some other lang or with a really expensive taxi ride.

http://www.dolomitisuperski.com/en-US/dolomiti-webcam-skimap-2160EN.html

Hire a guide and do the Bus de la tonfana - you hike to a hole in the Tofana in Cortina and get lowered on belay down to the other side and ski 8000 vert down to the valley

Dolomites were our first euro trip and it was classic.  We stayed in Cortina and then Arabba.  Cortina is the best town but i think the skiing is better in the AltaBadia and Arraba which are the next mountain ranges to the west from Cortina.  The food is also ridiculous and cheap.  Once you go here you'll be hooked on Euro skiing like i've been.  One negative compared to say St Anton or going to Switerzland is that you can't take the train there so that means driving on tiny mountain roads and over many passes.  I totally love flying into Zurich or Geneva and just going down the bottom level of the airport and hoping on a train and ending up at your ski town 2-3 hours later.

I have a great deal of Euro experience so if anyone has questions let me know and i'll give you my 2 cents worth.

Any thoughts on staying in the town of Corvara?  I heard the town is more lively than Arabba.  I know the skiing in the immediate vicinity is not the most exciting, but it seems well positioned on the Sella Ronda with Arabba next door and access to Lagazuoi and 5 Torri.  It's also close to the Val Mesdi.

That part of the area is more german than italian.  This area used to belong to Austria until WWI.  We stayed in Arraba which had access to the best expert skiing in the region and also good access to sella ronda.  Arraba is a small village so not much night life.  The best towns for that are Cortina or Val Gardina.

Ok. Here's one for y'all. Weather or snow wise, what are some of the characteristics of the different Yurp  regions. Like say....Are the Italian Alps sunnier/warmer,etc? Longer daylight ? Are the northern Alps better late spring skiing ?

Where's the bigger or fluffier snowfall?

Great thread.

Some of the lifts in Europe are " triple black diamond "....... Dangling 8-10,000' in the air while ascending a cliff

Ausable skier... dig the Standard Time inspiration that spawned this thread.  I've been in meetings and doing BS all day, sneaking peaks at your pics and descriptions on my phone.

How steep was the steepest terrain you skied?

ausable skier wrote

Chamonix is steep

+1 = great thread.

So here's the dream......Win lottery and spend the winter skiing Europe.

Go to one of those mega ski areas. Stay at different hotels and ski for a month or so. Ski like crazy amounts.

Massages. Beautiful scenery. Fine dining (every one raves about the food there). Apres ski. Nightlife. Quaint villages. Sightseeing.

Checking out the all Yurp Yimmin.

After  awhile, change areas. Ski for 3 months total.



Talked to a guy once, he mentioned the " perpetual " interconnected aspect. Ski from a huge lift served area right into another one and so on and so on.

Sometimes you're towed behing large horse drawn sleds to the next connection or a farmer will have a small ropetow you go up and then on to or " over " to the next area.

They say it's so easy to cover ground that one can easily to get 50 plus miles away from where you started out that day. Have your bags forwarded to the new hotel, get the Gold card out, apres ski.

What an awesome way to spend a couple months.

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Harv

Here are some more Chamonix photos to help you get thru Tuesday

This section reminded me of Alta


a guide is mandatory here - you can't get on the tram with out one


lunch hut half way down valle blanche - all food needs to be skied here by the staff including the wine







looking down on town - also shows pitch on other side of the valley which is another ski area


This may say it all - view up augidu midi cable car on mt blanc - Valle blanche route

ausable skier wrote

This may say it all - view up augidu midi cable car on mt blanc - Valle blanche route

I skied the Valle Blanche from the Italian side into Chamonix…very cool. We stayed in Courmayeur which was a beautiful alpine town, but I was kinda disappointed in the skiing except for the off piste stuff like the Valley Arp. Also, the tunnel was closed because of the fire going into Chamonix so we didn’t have access. Fortunately, we got to ski Verberia in Switzerland which was the best day I had in Europe.

Garmish-Partenkirken was a great area, Lots of US soldiers stationed there, great beer in that region too. They even had a chairlift that had blankets attached to the safety bars which swung around from the side of the chair and it had a weird bullwheel about 2/3 of the way up that made the lift basically take a left turn for the final ascent. St Anton is one of my favorites, lots of above tree line stuff and great off piste. To bad the dollar is so weak against the Euro now.

I spent a few summer days in Zermatt in 2009..
The summer skiing was a blast and the hiking and town were great too. But it was EXPENSIVE..

http://www.nyskiblog.com/search?q=zermatt

Jason had a good point about crowds and timing.  You don't want to go xmas or New years weeks.  January is fine after the first week - not crowded at all but do check the world cup race schedule because you don't want to be there those weeks

Late march and april are good bets for lower costs and less crowds.  The season is long in Chamonix and the higher swiss and french resorts.  Spring is iffy in Italy and Spain.

endoftheline wrote

Garmish-Partenkirken was a great area, Lots of US soldiers stationed there, great beer in that region too.

if you go to Garmish don't buy your lift ticket at the regular window - ask where the Armed forces rec center lodge is.  Go in there and you are on US soil.  Lift tickets are like $15 and sold in dollars.  They even have a PSIA US based ski school and any american use the rec center I was told even though you'd think it was just for the military.

Great beer of course and if you go there you fly into and out of Munich so you have to go do the beer halls there and see Munich.