First Time Alps Advice, Early Feb.

Relatively inexpensive direct flights have me looking to ski in Europe for the first time. Without any first hand knowledge It's tough to get detailed planning going, I've been reading some trip reports from around the web, and lots of googling but that almost makes it tougher to settle on a destination....There's too many options on where to ski before getting into the rest of the details

It's going to be two or three of us looking to get around 6 days of skiing in around the first week of February.
I'm on skis and the others will be on snowboard. We all ski at the same level, cautiously confident on just about any inbounds terrain in North America short of the most exposed and consequential. Our preferences trend towards Alpine, bowls, trees but we're definitely not above some fun, thigh burning groomers. The prospect of 15+ KM to town routes sound fun. I think our limiting factor will be lack of Avalanche education and gear.

As far as apres goes we're not looking for anything rowdy (we're all mid 30s/married), just some nice food, a decent drink and ideally an interesting enough town to mill around.

As of right now I'm thinking....

EWR-Milan, rent a car and head up to the Aosta Valley. Ski Monterosa for three days, stay in one of the three base area villages. Then head west toward Courmayeur/La Thuile and spend a day doing the Vallee Blanche to Chamonix before catching a bus back through the tunnel.
Overall I'm really liking what I'm reading about the accessible off piste and lack of crowds in Monterosa.

Does this sound reasonable or is it too complicated for a first time trip? Are we better off just staying in Aosta and day tripping from there? How essential are guides?
Should we skip Italy in favor of somewhere else? Other direct flight option is Zurich, limiting options would be excessive costs of accommodation and travel time from airport.

 

Search for Jamesdeluxe and his reports on here. He knows the place inside and out. If you're lucky he'll chime in and you can pick his brain.

I went to Europe for the first time last season. One week at Val d'Siere and another at La Plagne, both in France. First week at Val was with a ski club of older people, second at LaPlagne with a friend.
What I learned: It takes a long time to get there. Prices may be similar, but travel times are longer. Milan is a good idea, direct from JFK. It took us six hours in rain and snow just to get from Geneva to Val. You do the math if you have connecting flights.
Pick a place with trees. Val is large and spectacular, but impossible to enjoy in weather, because it's mostly above tree line. La Plagne had enough trees to make a snowstorm enjoyable.
When the sun is shining both places are stunning.
The food, on and off mountain is awesome.
I still don't get on and off piste dangers there. I think anything off a trail is considered unpatrolled. I saw tracks in places that would be suicidal in America, and, they probably were there, but, say la vee, I think.
Tickets are cheaper, at the window, and senior starts ar 65. I think that in some places 70+ is free. They respect their elders.
If you situate yourself at a good hotel in a lot of places, there is no need for a car. Even the Sella Ronda.

The food is awesome.

I was just in Tuscany for close to a month, and my girlfriend summed it up well. There's a certain elegance to Europeans, even middle class people, that Americans never will have.

While not in James stratosphere I’ve skied a lot in Europe I think 9 weeks total.  I work for a European company so I get lots of opportunities even for a weekend here or there.  Last winter I visited Wengen and Garmsch for weekends.  If you are moving around so much you won’t get to experience the apres ski and the half board at your hotels properly

A car rental big enough for 6 plus gear is going to super expensive and gas costs a lot.  For me the best way to experience a euro ski vacation is by train.  Fly to Zurich and catch the train from the lower level of the airport.  You can be at your hotel in about two hours in a mt village with no need for a car.

I had a great time in the Jungfrau region.  I stayed in Wengen which is a no car allowed village.  The Sunstar Hotel is great.  100m to the cable car station.  I was there just for a weekend but would love to spend a week there to get to ski the Murren and First sections.  You could also stay in grindewald on the other side.  The views of the Eiger and jungfrau are amazing.  It’s very English language friendly as it’s popular with Brits.  There was plenty of non scary off piste pow to be skied not requiring a guide.  I would still consider hiring one at least for a day though

https://www.jungfrau.ch/en-gb/jungfrau-ski-region/skiing/

Check out my Trip report
https://forum.nyskiblog.com/Wengen-CH-March-16-17-tp4148091.html

Also James TR from staying in the other side
https://forum.nyskiblog.com/Grindelwald-Wengen-CH-03-14-18-tp4123327.html

I might stay on the Grindelwald side if staying a week as it would be easier to ski the other sectors

Benny Profane wrote

What I learned: It takes a long time to get there. Prices may be similar, but travel times are longer. Milan is a good idea, direct from JFK. It took us six hours in rain and snow just to get from Geneva to Val. You do the math if you have connecting flights.
Pick a place with trees.

That's why I'm liking the Milan idea, direct flights followed by a relatively short 2.5 hour drive up to the Aosta area, with the added option of taking the tunnel through to Chamonix.
 I'd love to not have to deal with a car but I don't think public transit is quite as rapid and reliable in Italy in the mountains as it is in Switzerland.  

We were originally planning on flying into Spokane and doing Red, Whitewater and maybe adding Schweitzer in but with the lack of direct flights, costs of rental car and total traveling time had me thinking 'screw it, why not try Europe.'

Getting into Austria, somewhere like St Anton seems like a great option in terms of the skiing but I'm more worried about how busy it might be.

Almost every year, we have a "first-time to the Alps" post so here are my perspectives on a few bullet points, some copy/pasted from previous threads. As always, the "your-mileage may vary" disclaimer applies depending on your personal preferences. Here is a list of my trip reports over the past decade.

Rick_Kane wrote

Early Feb.

If early February means Week 1 only, you''re already avoiding the #1 big mistake: going during Xmas/New Year or the February school holiday (weeks 2, 3, and 4 as you can see in this calendar) and compounding it by visiting a world-renowned resort. That's where you hear the classic complaints: "Alps ski areas are so crowded. The liftlines are a disorganised mess -- people push and step on your skis. The Brits and Russians are all drunk by early afternoon. It's so expensive. There are thousands of Chinese non-skiers everywhere." It's similar to a foreigner flying to the U.S., skiing at top-tier resorts like Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Whistler, or Aspen during a peak period and making broad generalisations based on that experience instead of going somewhere less costly, crowded, industrial-tourism ambiance, etc.

Rick_Kane wrote

Relatively inexpensive direct flights

My personal line in the sand for flights is $600. Pay cash if below that; otherwise, use frequent-flyer rewards. Yesterday on Cyber Monday, United offered roundtrip nonstops to Europe -- including the top ski gateway airports: Zurich, Geneva, Milan, Munich -- for an incredible 36K miles +$50 in fees.

Z wrote

A car rental big enough for 6 plus gear is going to super expensive and gas costs a lot.  For me the best way to experience a euro ski vacation is by train.

Didn't the OP say there'll be a maximum of three people? If you’re staying at one huge ski region the entire time and using the public transport system on-site when necessary, it makes sense to take the train straight from the airport, plus you get all the landscape and relaxation benefits during the ride. I've successfully done that at monster circuits like Lech/St. Anton and the Portes du Soleil. As mentioned above, some ski villages, like Zermatt or Wengen, are car-free, so that takes care of your decision right there. OTOH, if you want to maximise your flexibility on where and when you ski (including the possibility to make turns on arrival and departure day depending on your flights and ambition), a car is really helpful just like in the States.

As far as rental car prices, I often find that it’s cheaper over there. A sportwagon is usually in the mid-$200s all-in for a week and gas is $50-70 depending on how much you drive (more expensive than here but hardly a dealbreaker). The cars I’ve rented in Zurich and Geneva over the last seven years always came with in-dash GPS (no need to pay the ridiculous per-day fee), the Swiss Autobahn sticker (no need to pay tolls), and snow tires in winter.

A few caveat emptors:
-- If you don’t drive a stick, request automatic transmission in your rental reservation. Otherwise, you'll get a manual.
-- Parking lots at many Swiss ski areas charge $5 a day; only the smaller locals areas sometimes offer free parking. The reasoning is that people who take the insanely well-thought-out-and-executed public transport to go skiing shouldn’t be charged for those who drive, which makes sense, and that the parking lots are owned by the municipalities, not the ski areas like in North America. Parking is generally free in other Alps countries.
-- If you’ve never driven in the Alps (over high-altitude mountain passes or especially on very narrow, steep, switchbacked roads, frequently with no guardrails to keep you from plummeting a thousand vertical feet over the side) it’s often a whole different ballgame over there. Comparatively, driving to ski areas in the States, even out west, is laughably easy. You can view it as an exciting part of the experience or something you don't want to deal with (i.e. take the train).

Rick_Kane wrote

As of right now I'm thinking.... EWR-Milan, rent a car and head up to the Aosta Valley. Ski Monterosa for three days, stay in one of the three base area villages. Then head west toward Courmayeur/La Thuile and spend a day doing the Vallee Blanche to Chamonix before catching a bus back through the tunnel. Overall I'm really liking what I'm reading about the accessible off piste and lack of crowds in Monterosa.

I haven't been to Chamonix or Aosta; however, in addition to TGR check out Tony Crocker's TRs in this forum.

Rick_Kane wrote

Other direct flight option is Zurich, limiting options would be excessive costs of accommodation and travel time from airport.

I assume you meant travel time to the likely destination region mentioned above (Aosta/Chamonix). Zurich has many ski areas within 75 minutes of the airport: Toggenburg, Arosa/Lenzerheide, Pizol, all the ones in the Lake Lucerne/Schwyz region (I've been to a fair number/see my TRs). Once out of the metro Zurich region, lodging costs become relatively reasonable, and I've also found cheap-and-cheerful rates in the city on booking.com.

My advice on the Alps is...

Don't freak out when you're in a sauna and people are naked...
And dinner starts really late..  

dmc_hunter wrote

My advice on the Alps is...

Don't freak out when you're in a sauna and people are naked...
And dinner starts really late..

i can't tell you how many time i was the only one in a restaurant at 6pm..

So many TRs, the more I check out the more difficult my choice becomes. For whatever reason I'm still drawn to Monterosa, possibly it's the lack of trip reports and mystery but It's tough committing to that and missing out on all the other options from Milan or Zurich...Burden of choice.

First week in Feb, may be able to extend into the last week of January. With one week It probably makes the most sense to just post up in one spot and not do too much traveling, with two weeks we would likely try out a second area.

Looking at the really large spots like St Anton (and others) is baffling, I cant even begin to comprehend the size of the lift network let alone all the different town/base area options to stay in.

There's a maximum of 3, more likely two of us so fitting into a car is not an issue...

I'm extremely open to specific suggestions based upon our priorities....
The skiing is the most important, off and on piste, ideally not super busy.
Extensive lift/trail network, interlinked ski areas, enough that a full week in the same spot wont feel like we're just skiing the same few areas over and over again.
Food/Nightlife, good food and a relaxing night out over partying every time
Lastly, cost as always a concern. We're not trying to pinch pennies and go after bargains at the expense of the actual travel experience but there is a limit.

It seems so much easier coming from somewhere like UK where they have all these easy package deals available...but I guess that's why there are drunk brits all over

The Alburg is the region that St Anton is in.  It’s huge but not fully connected.  We spent a week in St Anton and it’s a excellent choice.  The Lech side is much more expensive to stay than StAnton.  Both have excellent skiing.  I really like the Less crowded Rendl section.  Really great apres bars in the area.  If you fly into Munich you can combine visiting the beer halls there and visit the great  castles in the region as well.  If you are want to ski other areas you would drive right past Garmisch ( highly recommend Reindl's Partenkirchner Hof, Garmisch-Partenkirchen for lodging and the restaurant) on the way to StAnton or could visit Innsbruck as well.  

While the food is good in Italy I find the ski areas much less organized than in the Germanic countries.  The lift lines are crazy in Italy.  Think Bruno talking on a cell while smoking and stepping on your skis.  

It’s important as James mentioned to research school holidays in the region you are going and also check the World Cup race schedule to avoid big events.

Usually hotels prefer to book by the week and usually Saturday to  Saturday.  

The trip we will be doing when we finally have a chance to do a proper European skiing vacation will be Zermatt to St. Moritz via the Glacier Express.

Fly into Zurich, train to Zermatt, spend sufficient time to ski the Zermatt/Cervinia region, then work across the Swiss Alps via the Glacier Express to St. Moritz, with potential stops in Andermatt (a reinvigorated region that has seen billions in investment over the past half dozen years, Egyptian billionaire investment that has brought this once busy crossroads village back to relevance and linked the Andermatt-Sedrun Ski Arena in an area of the Swiss Alps that has long been a mecca for freeriders and off-piste skiers) and Chur (tiny, relatively speaking, but very picturesque and quaint, as my daughter found on her journey to St. Moritz, after an Easter stop in this storybook village, complete with Choo-Choo Train), with a return via train to Zurich from St. Moritz.

Easy flights to/from Zurich, very easy train connections with reasonable travel times from/to the airport, Zermatt and the Matterhorn (‘nuff said), arguably the best train journey in Europe on the Glacier Express, remote Swiss ski villages, and even a taste of glitzy people watching in St. Moritz, and all of it sans car.  Hard to as for more than that in an Alps ski adventure!

We loved St. Anton and didn't find it's size intimidating.  The lift system there is incredible. So is the food.  We took a taxi from the Zurich airport and didn't feel the need for a car all week, as the bus system was great, and we stayed right in the middle of town. (Z, I was in St. Anton in 2017 and it is now fully connected, as there now is a tram between Stuben and Zuers.)

We also spent a week in Chamonix, which was fantastic. This area is not interconnected though, so travel between the resorts requires a car or a bus.  The town was great and lodging/food was a little less expensive than St. Anton.  It's only about 90 minutes from Geneva, so getting there is relatively easy.

We traveled during President's week for both trips, and didn't find anything overly crowded, so I'm sure a non-holiday week would be even better.

  if you are looking to save money, fly into Milan.  Train to Zermatt from Millan... Easy peasy ...One change in Visp..
I have been to Zermatt twice..Cant' say enough about it...that said if the weather is bad , that will limit your skiing options..

Yeah, on our one short visit to Zermatt we got skunked on the skiing, and my daughter’s Zermatt to Chur leg of the Glacier Express was cancelled due to avalanche concerns from new snow, and this was in April, so weather could fairly easily impact the trip we’d like to take....

If one wanted to fly into Milan they could always consider the Bernina Express, another incredible UNESCO World Heritage adventure that connects with St. Moritz and the Swiss Alps.  My wife is a non-skier, so incredibly picturesque train rides and  quaint mountain villages are as big a draw as the skiing for my crew!

Rick_Kane wrote

So many TRs, the more I check out the more difficult my choice becomes. For whatever reason I'm still drawn to Monterosa, possibly it's the lack of trip reports and mystery but It's tough committing to that and missing out on all the other options from Milan or Zurich...Burden of choice.

It's a nice problem to have. As you're aware, the great differentiator with North America is numerous gigantic circuits that you can't ski out in a week or more. At the same time, the "small" places are as big/often bigger than Snowbasin or Alta. While it's fantastic to settle into one hotel for a week with a half-board format, as a variety junkie I like to hit as many off-the-beaten-path places as possible (the FOMO factor).

If I can offer some unsolicited advice: since you're getting a rental car, don't feel obligated to pull the trigger on accommodations for a region way in advance when you'll be there during an off-peak period. I sometimes book hotels literally at the last-minute (without getting gouged) to account for evolving snow conditions or a change of mood. Also, lift tickets are substantially cheaper there and you don't need to buy them far in advance to get the lowest price like here.

JTG4eva! wrote

If one wanted to fly into Milan they could always consider the Bernina Express, another incredible UNESCO World Heritage adventure that connects with St. Moritz and the Swiss Alps.  My wife is a non-skier, so incredibly picturesque train rides and  quaint mountain villages are as big a draw as the skiing for my crew!

This looks pretty cool but I'll save that for a trip with my non skiing wife.

Jamesdeluxe wrote

If I can offer some unsolicited advice: since you're getting a rental car, don't feel obligated to pull the trigger on accommodations for a region way in advance when you'll be there during an off-peak period. I sometimes book hotels literally at the last-minute (without getting gouged) to account for evolving snow conditions or a change of mood. Also, lift tickets are substantially cheaper there and you don't need to buy them far in advance to get the lowest price like here.

I think this is what we're going to do. If google maps is accurate MXP puts us within a 2-4 hour drive of a whole lot of options ranging from western Austra, through Switzerland, Chamonix and the Aosta Valley areas.

A key website for the Alps that I've mentioned many times over the years in my TRs is London-based Weather to Ski, especially its daily snow blog and snow-reliability guide. Your target region made yesterday's report:


Another fine day in the Monte Rosa region today – 6 December 2019 – Photo: facebook.com/VisitMonteRosa

Years ago my wife and I skied around Insbruck Austria where there are many smaller areas, as well as Aximer (Olympics venue) and Stubai Glacier. We rented a small Ford with snow tires and lived like locals at smaller B&Bs.  Best day skiing, ever in my 58 years, was Stubai Glacier, mid week. No crowd. Something like 7000 feet of vertical in one run. It was late February and snow pack in valleys was measured in meters. No reservations. No plans. Fantastic food and skiing. We still say "Teach Me to Ski Wolfie", because we met this hilarious Austrian instructor who took us on some of the deepest, steepest, stuff we have ever skied. A blast.