Flats vs. Clipless - more fuel for the fire.

I go back and forth, on a ride by ride basis, between being clipped in, and riding flats.  Always clipped in on anything remotely road like, usually clipped in on 80% of my off road rides; but I ride flats with 5-10 shoes on very technical exposed trails, and when I spend a day downhilling at a lift area.
I'll also use flats and appropriate shoes when going on a potential f'd-up epic exploration ride that might require lots of hike-a-bike.  

Here's a good article with some points on the advantage of flats.
Just some food for thought.

http://m.pinkbike.com/news/why-you-dont-want-to-push-through-the-ball-of-your-foot-when-you-pedal-2014.html

Td

I noticed some of your pics had a bike with "regular" bike pedals.  Not exactly sure what the difference is between flat and clipless?

We're putting a new trail nordic/mtb trail in at HQ and one of NYSB's partners (Garnet Hill Lodge) has a mtb trail network and bikes. I asked if they could loan me a bike to test the trail out.

I had no idea what I wanted as I've never ridden on a trail that is brand new and had no traffic or compression in the soil.  (Foolishly it turns out I asked for a full suspension).  Anyway the bike they gave me was a Mongoose (?) with regular pedals. I ended up really liking it.

Not sure if I am just completely lame or a combo of soft ground, full suspension and soft tires was at play but the steepest parts I couldn't get up.  Each time I got a little farther up the hills and I felt more comfortable pushing it knowing I could jump off an any moment.

Good article

I use flats due to my knee issues ---- no more clipping in for me

TD, 5-10's rock!!! I ride in em too, totally dig them.

Yup, love the 5-10's.   (Though on a ride today with SBR, I wore a pair of old Salomon TechAmphibs, given the potential for
lots of water on the trails we were exploring)
As for clipless and knee issues,  my wife and I ride Crank Bros's, Eggbeaters and Candy's.  Lots of float to let your knees find their happy spot.  But then again neither of us has ever had any major knee tweaks..

I can see using flats more and more as I get older,  they give you a mental edge when the going gets sketchy.  

They also look way cooler.

TD

Harv:  yes.  Flats = "regular pedals", though when someone refers to them as "flats", they are talking about BMX style pedals, with a large platform area and "pins" to that help your shoe stick on the pedal.

Clipless pedals are pedals that your shoe attaches to via a cleat on the sole of the shoe and a spring mechanism in the pedal - just like an alpine ski binding (kind of)... You disengage your shoe/foot by twisting your heel out to the side.  They are called "clipless" because they were originally designed to replace old school toe clips/straps.   They started as a road bike application in the 80's, and were introduced to the mtb world by Shimano in the very early 90's.

Flats came into vogue via the BMX and trials world crossing into mtb-ing, originally for downhilling and soon after for the whole freeride scene.  

They both have their pros and cons.  Most people I know are polarized, but really, one should try both if you haven't.  You won't know if you don't go... Or something like that.

TD

Can you bunny hop in Flats?

I am one of those polarized people, I can't ride platform pedals after riding clipless for the last 20 years. I use the whole stroke when I ride - pedaling in circles. In platforms my feet shoot off the top of the pedals and particularly when climbing they leave the pedal on the upstroke.

PeeTex wrote

Can you bunny hop in Flats?

Yes, you can.

PeeTex wrote

I am one of those polarized people, I can't ride platform pedals after riding clipless for the last 20 years. I use the whole stroke when I ride - pedaling in circles. In platforms my feet shoot off the top of the pedals and particularly when climbing they leave the pedal on the upstroke.

Then you are doing it wrong. What sort of flat pedals and shoes do you have? Grippy shoes like 5.10s and modern spiky flat pedals allow you to "pull up" almost as well as clipless. Read the article the TD linked above.

i had an accident on my MB about 8 years ago when my feet didn't release. ended up having surgery about 9 months later when a surgeon cut my adductor longus tendon from the pelvis to relieve chronic pain which prevented me from mowing the grass and even playing catch with my son. i have used platform pedal since without regret. i would rather err on the side of safety than improved efficiency. however,on my road bike i installed speedplay pedals which provide quick,simple,and easy entry/exit and they provide great float. they never cause knee pain.

PeeTex wrote

Can you bunny hop in Flats?

I am one of those polarized people, I can't ride platform pedals after riding clipless for the last 20 years. I use the whole stroke when I ride - pedaling in circles. In platforms my feet shoot off the top of the pedals and particularly when climbing they leave the pedal on the upstroke

Some people have no problem...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TVgpw0AXzcA

Dave,

Never saw his feet leave the pedals, are you sure he was using platforms?

Yup. You betcha.

http://www.inspiredbicycles.com/danny_macaskill_r3.php

And just for good measure...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=riKXlQjFdgg



TD

Cool. Those moves start with a wheely and follow through with the rear wheel lift. On the rare occasion I do a hop on my road bike it is a straight up maneuver and I think I am pulling the bike up but I really don't know as the move is instinctive.  

Sick Bird Rider wrote

What sort of flat pedals and shoes do you have? Grippy shoes like 5.10s and modern spiky flat pedals allow you to "pull up" almost as well as clipless. Read the article the TD linked above.

None of my bikes currently have platform pedals and I only have road shoes. The last time I rode a bike with flat pedals was a few years ago and I had tennis shoes on, they were your run of the mill pedals. So what I think you are saying is that there is a whole new technology out there in pedals and shoes that improve the grip between the pedal and the shoe without going all the way to clipping in. That's good to know. For now though I'll stick with my speed plays as they serve me quite nicely.

That is mind blowing.

I like Danny M better without a uniform on.

Nothing wrong with Speedplays... They're even floater than the Egg beaters.  They're like having your feet magically attached to an ice cube.    

And yes, the Flat pedals we're talking about are very techy, usually CNC'd aluminum or Magnesium, very light for the size, with a concave platform and replaceable "pins" that are like set screws.  You can use any shoe with them, but a dedicated one is best.  Court or skateboard shoes are good too, but don't fair well for any off road hiking you might have to do.  Most dedicated shoes for flats are stiffer, for better power transfer, though no where near as stiff as a clipless race type shoe.  

All that being said, there is a learning curve to flat pedal riding - a classic rookie mark is a bunch of pin holes in the shin.  They can stick in pretty deep too.  Ouch!

TD

Here's a review of some flat pedals from 2011 in Bicycling magazine.

http://m.bicycling.com/mountainbikecom/bikes-gear/reviewed-high-end-flat-pedals

There's lots of options available currently that are just techy, and half the price.  
I've been using DMR V8's for the last 10 years, a bit old school (for flats), but cheap and easily serviced.
(Pin replacement and bearing maintenance)
http://www.dmrbikes.com/products/pedals/v8

TD

When I bought my bike, nearly 3 years ago as a newbie, the shop asked me what I wanted to do for pedals.  My thought at the time - and I couldn't have been more wrong - was "I'm spending a grand on a new bike, I'm sure whatever pedals it comes with are just fine."  After banging the piss out of those stock pedals, I finally replaced them with some low-profile flats last fall (Nashbar Verge, around $40) and I couldn't be happier.  They made a huge difference.  My feet stick to them like glue.

I've got clipless pedals and shoes sitting on the bench at home, but I'm hesitant to make the switch.  Part of my hesitation is that I'm so pleased with my current flats.  Another factor is that maybe 50% of my riding is on my home out-the-backdoor trails and I've been spending a fair bit of time doing trail maint, and cleated shoes just don't seem like the right footware for that.  But the biggest factor is my fear of not being able to get a quick foot down when I'm riding rocky technical trails like SMBA and Spier Falls.  I know, I need to just man up and switch to clipless.  It'll happen eventually.

Adk Jeff:  no need to "switch" to clipless, use 'em both, depending on your mood and what and where you're riding.  I concur as far as trail maintenance goes..my Sidi clipless shoes suck on anything resembling wet rock.  
So 5-10's and flats for trail work days.

I am due for some new clipless shoes - I've been looking at the new crop of "enduro" (really, it's just old school mountain biking..) shoes from Giro, Pearl Izumi, and Mavic.  
Best of both worlds... Clip in AND also get off and walk around.  

Td

Why are they called clipless when you use them to "clip in"?