Giant Resort Companies You Hate Are Saving Skiing

riverc0il wrote

Finally, the multi-resort area ownership hurts jobs. By combining many areas under one umbrella, a business can reduce the number of people that do overlapping work and create more specialization. Specialization means it is harder to develop a broad base of skills and move up the ladder, especially now that there are fewer and fewer total positions. That is one of the ways they can make the cheap season pass work.

It isn't all bad and I stopped ragging on the big resorts long ago, it was a pointless and silly thing to do. I just don't ski at areas that don't appeal to me. The lower price season pass is great for people that like to ski those mountains. But to put this type of thing up on a pedestal and say that it is "saving skiing" is ludicrous.

I’ve been hearing that working at our mountain isn’t the same anymore. They’ve been going on a firing spree this year and trying to do a lot of the work for all of their areas out of Durango. They just let some very good people go. It’s a bummer.

As much as you guys complain about ORDA, it's a gift.  It's like state land.  Sure it'll never be perfect but it's there to stay.  I actually can't believe non-skiing taxpayers don't petition and go ballistic about it.  Probably something to do with the Olympic in the name.  Or ignorance.  One of those two I'm sure.

Z wrote

The industry consolidation has been good to bring prices down on passes.  

Consolidation never brings down prices. So far, it's been about getting skiers to put up $1000 in advance, but at the same time day ticket prices are skyrocketing. It's an entire change on the business model form one in which the buyers shop around for the best value to one where every needs to commit 6 months on advance. And if you have a large group of friends, someone will end up paying window rate to ski with them.

Nobody is doing all that consolidation to make less money.

mm

Cunningstunts wrote

As much as you guys complain about ORDA, it's a gift.  It's like state land.  Sure it'll never be perfect but it's there to stay.  I actually can't believe non-skiing taxpayers don't petition and go ballistic about it.  Probably something to do with the Olympic in the name.  Or ignorance.  One of those two I'm sure.

The state owns golf courses, parks, & beaches, too, and people complain about those.

People just love to complain. I think it's human nature.

I don't agree with this.  These mega resorts companies are providing opportunities for people to move around and up the ladder.  I like any company that is putting in shit loads of infrastructure at ski areas.  They can fail but the infrastructure can never be taken away.

Cunningstunts wrote

Ski local and fuck those corporate assholes.

I'm not saying you have to completely give up on lifts, but skiing used to be a lot more like Trail mountain biking is now.  A lot of AT and Tele setups can be used dual purpose for lift-served and human powered skiing.

Sadly, climate change and old age have ruined that for me.

mm

campgottagopee wrote

Competition breeds good business, imo

The strong will survive

Eliminating competition is the entire point of consolidation.

mm

Interesting. And building infrastructure creates jobs as well.

I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with though. I just stated what I’ve been told is happening here and it was without an actual opinion.

Milo Maltbie wrote

Cunningstunts wrote

Ski local and fuck those corporate assholes.

I'm not saying you have to completely give up on lifts, but skiing used to be a lot more like Trail mountain biking is now.  A lot of AT and Tele setups can be used dual purpose for lift-served and human powered skiing.

Sadly, climate change and old age have ruined that for me.

mm

No idea how old you are dude - but I see some old muthahuckers XC skiing.  And if you can XC ski, you can do laps with AT.  Do both.  And ride your bike.  You'll be surprised what you can do.  I'm pretty sure the day I can't ski up a hill is the day I can't ski back down.

There's no shame in a taking a little drive to do some of this either.  Even with climate change I bet there's places to do this within an hour from where you live.

More involvement from younger, more energetic community members making trails, skin tracks and glades means more for you.  It's happening.  NY hasn't really grasped on with skiing yet but has exploded with biking in the last 10 years.  The same could happen with skiing, and there's already a pretty good XC ski infrastructure in our public lands.

tjf1967 wrote

.  I like any company that is putting in shit loads of infrastructure at ski areas.  They can fail but the infrastructure can never be taken away.

Tell that to Ascutney. Or Berthoud Pass.

Ski areas fail and their infrastructure goes away. You hope it won't happen to your local mountain, but you never know.

Or Saddleback.

Things are changing and I know I probably sound like a broken record but if climate science is correct it’s all gonna be over in 40 or 50 years anyways.

raisingarizona wrote

Or Saddleback.

Things are changing and I know I probably sound like a broken record but if climate science is correct it’s all gonna be over in 40 or 50 years anyways.

People have been skiing for 8000 years.  It's not going anywhere.  It just might not look the way you think it should.

I was disagreeing with River.  he thinks big companies provide shitty jobs.  Well they do but they also provide opportunity to move up if you are any good.  I think they call it putting in your dues.

Milo Maltbie wrote

Sadly, climate change and old age have ruined that for me.

mm

Not to brag, just a point of reference.  I skied 29 times last year BC or XC start on 12/12 and ending on 3/26.  I usually ski a few lift served days too on top of that.  I also took 0 trips to the Catskills, Adirondacks or VT.

Climate change is real, but our skiing is still pretty good.

Cunningstunts wrote

There's no shame in a taking a little drive to do some of this either.  Even with climate change I bet there's places to do this within an hour from where you live.

That's the problem right there.
Forty years ago, there was reliable Catskills backcountry an hour from NYC. Now there's barely backcountry in the Dacks some years. The number of people who have local skiing available has shrunk dramatically, and you are not going to learn to ski if a big bucks vacation is your only opportunity. The business future of skiing is bleak.

But I get your point about AT and XC and skiing with younger people.  Some of my most enjoyable winters were when I could ski out my front door to a Nature Conservancy area, and teaching my kids in the back yard, but you probably need to live in Booneville for that kind of experience now.

mm

 

Cunningstunts wrote

raisingarizona wrote

Or Saddleback.

Things are changing and I know I probably sound like a broken record but if climate science is correct it’s all gonna be over in 40 or 50 years anyways.

People have been skiing for 8000 years.  It's not going anywhere.  It just might not look the way you think it should.

Resort skiing is gonna be over. Skiing will revert to a cult thing practiced by a small number of Finns and Canadians. The last resort skiing will be in Japan.

mm

Cunningstunts wrote

Climate change is real, but our skiing is still pretty good.

Not around here. Even in Johnsburg, reliable XC requires snowmaking. Until 1976, Gore operated without snowmaking. The change in forty years is frightening.

mm

witch hobble wrote

IMHO you punish.

If that means some innocent priests or Penn State assistant coaches go down with the ship......so be it.

Maybe I'm missing a part of the story but I don't think Subway was trying to keep their spokesman safe from prosecution.

Cunningstunts wrote

Milo Maltbie wrote

Sadly, climate change and old age have ruined that for me.

mm

Not to brag, just a point of reference.  I skied 29 times last year BC or XC start on 12/12 and ending on 3/26.  I usually ski a few lift served days too on top of that.  I also took 0 trips to the Catskills, Adirondacks or VT.

Climate change is real, but our skiing is still pretty good.

Yeah, I'm still getting on some good days but it's not going to last much longer and as it becomes more difficult to run a functional ski area the big conglomerates are going to be the last men standing.

And yeah, 29 days isn't anything to brag about.

Milo Maltbie wrote

Cunningstunts wrote

Climate change is real, but our skiing is still pretty good.

Not around here. Even in Johnsburg, reliable XC requires snowmaking. Until 1976, Gore operated without snowmaking. The change in forty years is frightening.

mm

Yeah, I get that.  But Gore is also a business that strives to stay open as many days as possible with hoards of skiers scraping off that hard-earned snow.  15-20k feet per day.  Try doing that if you have to climb.  I bet you get 1/10 of that at best.  Getting skied off happens a lot less and a lot less people are willing to do it.

And resort skiing going away?  Is that a bad thing really?  I don't think it will, entirely, but the market may shrink quite a bit.  And people who really love to ski will still ski on days there are snow.  It'll just be the clueless masses that skiers complain about anyway that won't be there.

XC actually doesn't require much snowmaking.  Snow farming, compacting and optimal trail design help that out a lot.  There's places where you can XC ski with 2" of snow, I shit you not.

I live in a place that averages 120-150" of snow a year.  Our schools still have XC ski teams.  There are microclimates with ski trails that almost always have consistent snow.  Historical value of a ski area may shortly become a thing of the past - we have the knowledge and tools now to know where the snow is most reliable.