Gore SHOULD do the right thing

In a real world, business would want to make money by keeping existing customers happy and geting new customers.

By discontinuing midweek skiing Gore took away midweek skiers privileges, the fact that it happens in previous seasons does not make any difference. Allowing them to ski would bring money from selling services (food, etc.: "let me get a beer since I could ski today"), and will not require any extra effort from Gore.

What is priceless is "thank you, Goes for letting me ski on weekend, since you closed during the week" vs. The alternative ("I will not be a second class citizen at K, open means open - I like that, let's see how much their passes are")

@Condor  I do not appreciate your childish sarcasm.  I intended this post to be a discussion.  If you do not have anything constructive to contribute, please don't post a Facepalm attack on me.  "expressing how dumb that was in words just doesn't work" might be cute in a Cheerleader's Forum, but the rest of us are adults involved in a adult discussion.  

Back to the topic. Denis.N is right on in his evaluation.

Here are the points as I see them.  

1. The snow at Gore is in good condition.
2. Gore has income and expenses to consider.
3. Gore has to maintain a balance between customer satisfaction and the bottom line.


Closing on weekdays achieves prevents operating at a loss.  
Closing weekdays takes away 8 days of skiing from the MidWeek Passholder.(Assuming that Gore can stay open for 2 weeks.)

So how can a business maintain profitability and not alienate customers, which is the goal of EVERY business?  You don't have to be a heartless bast**d to run a profitable business.  The real questions is if the lifts are spinning for the other customers, how does allowing weekday passholders to ski on weekends increase the expense/reduce the profitability of Gore Mountain?  

My suggestion is that Gore should allow weekday passholders to ski the remainder of the season to maintain goodwill.

Well, Gore doesn't exactly have a customer friendly reputation. Letting MW pass holders ski these last few weekends would cost Gore absolutely zero dollars and would help spread some good cheer but don't look for them to do it.

There's really only a very few skiers at the hill then and a few more skiers would help make it worth while for Gore to turn the lifts. We're always saying no new dollars come into Gore's coffers during this time period, but more skiers would add more food, beer, services dollars.

Whiteface gives away more free swag than Gore to passholders. Platte, Pico and others have free, no preconditions, ski days.

Personally, I think it's a great idea that would cost Gore nada. There's far more value in good customer relations than is being let on in this debate. Over the years, I haven't really see any of us who feel Gore is " the mtn that loves you back ".

If I was Mtn manager I would do it in a heart beat, but then I'm also the kinda guy who would have an end of season BBQ for people outta my own pocket...we'ld all have fun and talk of Gore goodwill would spread.

The mountain could always pick a date, say 3/15, and offer current weekday passholders a $99 add-on/ Spring Pass to allow weekend skiing for the rest of the season.  Obviously no guarantee on how many weekends the mountain stays open and the date could be moved according to the current year's snowfall totals/weather outlook.  Something like this probably makes way too much sense though...

this is how it's done:

Mount Snow wrote

- Due to the forecast we will close Monday & Tuesday (April 4 & 5) and reopen on Wednesday through Sunday.
-Weather permitting, we will reopening on April 16 & 17 for our final weekend of skiing and riding.
-ALL SEASON PASSES WILL BE VALID DURING THE WEEKEND OPERATING HOURS, INCLUDING MIDWEEK & NEW SUNDAY ONLY PASSES

ski2moro wrote

campgottagopee wrote

I would say they are doing the right thing. Why should people who only paid for mid-week skiing have the same rights as people who paid for a full pass???

Because they are taking away the weekday skiing while the snow is still good.  Whatever the reason, it costs them nothing more to allow the weekday people to ski the closing weekends, but it builds HUGE goodwill.

I understand, but many ski areas do the same thing this time of year....mid-week pass holders will just have to deal with it b/c that's what they paid for.

You say it costs them nothing....what if a "regular" pass holder finds out that others are getting the same benefits that he's getting w/o out having to pay for it. Pissed off customers end up costing you biz.
We just have diff opinions....and that's ok.

I just got this in an email from Gore:

"We are open Friday, and your pass is valid that day, but not on weekends.  That is why it costs hundreds of dollars less than our other passes- because it has more restrictions.  However, did you know that your Gore-only midweek pass is accepted at Whiteface on Wednesday of this week?  If it works for your schedule, try to take advantage of that opportunity!"

So Gore weekday passes are valid at Whiteface on Wednesday.  It's a start.

@Campgottagopee - Getting everyone's opinion is exactly why I started this discussion.  If we disagree, we disagree.  No insults, no problem.  You and I approach this situation from 2 viewpoints.  I believe that if it does no harm to a full season pass holder or to the mountain, what should it matter if a weekday pass holder gets to ski on a couple of Spring weekends?  You see it as a rigid policy that must have no exception.  Neither viewpoint is wrong.  Still friends?

Denis.N wrote

In a real world, business would want to make money by keeping existing customers happy and geting new customers.

By discontinuing midweek skiing Gore took away midweek skiers privileges, the fact that it happens in previous seasons does not make any difference. Allowing them to ski would bring money from selling services (food, etc.: "let me get a beer since I could ski today"), and will not require any extra effort from Gore.

What is priceless is "thank you, Goes for letting me ski on weekend, since you closed during the week" vs. The alternative ("I will not be a second class citizen at K, open means open - I like that, let's see how much their passes are")

1. This is the real world. No ski area makes $ spinning lifts for 40 passholders.
2.Previous history of closing does matter. It tells you that if you buy a mid week pass there will be a time at the end of the season when your pass expires before the final close of the mtn.
3. Many of the people I see skiing midweek byo food/beverages. This includes me most of the time. I doubt their habits are going to change with a free weekend. Centerplate runs the food - does Gore get a % or are they on a flat contract? Either way a $15 lunch bill is a drop in the bucket vs a lift ticket.

Ski2moro - you mention you have a full pass. Why do you care about midweek skiing? How many people care about this issue? While I see some opinions here - nobody in this thread has mentioned they have a mid week pass. I would suggest that this is a non-issue that might only affect a few people. If this is the case - all the "Gore would get goodwill and keep the customer happy" stuff is just BS.

ski2moro wrote

I just got this in an email from Gore:

"We are open Friday, and your pass is valid that day, but not on weekends.  That is why it costs hundreds of dollars less than our other passes- because it has more restrictions.  However, did you know that your Gore-only midweek pass is accepted at Whiteface on Wednesday of this week?  If it works for your schedule, try to take advantage of that opportunity!"

So Gore weekday passes are valid at Whiteface on Wednesday.  It's a start.

@Campgottagopee - Getting everyone's opinion is exactly why I started this discussion.  If we disagree, we disagree.  No insults, no problem.  You and I approach this situation from 2 viewpoints.  I believe that if it does no harm to a full season pass holder or to the mountain, what should it matter if a weekday pass holder gets to ski on a couple of Spring weekends?  You see it as a rigid policy that must have no exception.  Neither viewpoint is wrong.  Still friends?

100% friends....and yes I do see it as no exceptions, that's the rule...period.

It totally whips me out of shape seeing/watching people try to get something for nothing...i just see that kinda stuff in my biz all the time and it drives me bonkers!!!

I agree about people getting something for nothing.  For example, people who buy a camera on Thursday for their weekend trip and return it to the store on Monday.  People who buy a generator when their power goes out and return it when the power comes back.  Best Buy and Lowes take back the used product without question.  It's part of their cost of doing business and people take advantage of it all the time.  That's stealing in my opinion, and it's wrong.  Black and White.

OTOH, I had a 33 month old MacBook Pro, 66 days short of being out of warranty.  Over the years, I had several parts replaced - battery, keyboard, display, and an I/O board. All replaced under warranty and with no real hardship to me. It's a computer and things happen.  Then, the DVD burner stopped working.  It was replaced, but the replacement DVD didn't work either.  I waited 10 days for the part to come in to the Albany store before calling Apple Care to see if they could speed up the process in any way.  To my surprise, the call was escalated to Second Tier support immediately.  I wasn't nasty at all, I just wanted to know.

I didn't even get a chance to explain my situation to the second person.  She looked at my service record and said, "You have had too many repairs to this computer, so Apple Corporation would like to offer you a new MacBook Pro for all of your problems."  They graciously allowed me to upgrade the hard drive to a larger size, at my cost.  It arrived via FedEx at my home from the manufacturer in 5 days.  

That's Customer Service. Going above and beyond what is expected or required in order to keep a customer happy.  Happy? Absolutely. I was shocked. Did I deserve a new computer?  Not really, but I'm not going to argue about getting one.  


To give Gore the credit they deserve, they have responded in a polite manner to every email I sent .  They told me that Mike has been included in every correspondence.  <Shrug> Win a few, lose a few.   You don't know if you don't ask.

Some valid arguments on both sides.

The side for weekday skiers skiing free on spring weekends is basically a "win/no-lose" situation. Weekend skiers get to ski for free (win), and it shouldn't cost Gore much if anything (no-lose).

I've been trying to see this from the other side. Ultimately, as a "business" it probably comes down to revenue.  I wouldn't be surprised if two of ORDA's top revenue sources are weekend/holiday day ticket sales, and full priced season passes.  

It could be argued that the midweek proposal has the potential to reduce both day ticket and full pass sales. If you know you'll get those days for free, why buy a day ticket or upgrade your pass next season? I doubt the added revenue from food/beverage is a big incentive - the cut that ORDA gets on food service is fairly small.

I was trying to think of a win/win scenario for this situation.  All mountains want your money as early as possible — it's why they offer early deadline discounts on passes. My idea: Gore offers full spring riding privileges to anyone who buys a (2011/2012) season pass of ANY type midweek or full.  Gore gets the money a few months before the early deadline, and midweekers can ski Friday and the weekend. That could be considered win/win. (Alas it wasn't, but hey I tried).

It's interesting that, with no midweek pass offered, Whiteface's simpler pass structure avoids this issue altogether. Kind of an odd situation where offering an extra discount and flexibility is actually undermining satisfaction among the customers who are taking advantage of it.

One question I'd ask, is whether or not Gore ALWAYS closes mid-week at the end of the season, leaving weekend only skiing for the final one or two weeks.

If that is in fact the case, then I guess if you purchase a mid-week only pass, you know what you're in for.

If, on the other hand, the mid-week closing is not ALWAYS the case, and there are some seasons where the mountain stays open until a particular date and then closes completely, then I'd say that a mid-week only pass purchaser is being treated a little unfairly ... they should at least have an option to get a discounted ticket for those final weekend days.

x10003q wrote

How many people care about this issue?

I suspect this is a storm in a glass of water, which will be forgotten by most (or not an issue) when considering which pass to buy at which mountain after months of summer.

Closing mid week at this time of year is fairly typical for Gore (if they have not closed for good already).

They (Gore) apparently cannot do the right thing in many similar ways:

For this closing weekend with diminishing conditions they still charge $52. I'm not a season pass holder, mostly ski midweek (Price Chopper-used up, Liftopia, Wednesdays), so $52 looks outright ridiculous for a Friday like this, 4/15.

Whiteface (which is 50 min more driving for me each way) sold $35 tix on the spot, $24 on Liftopia. No question where I ended up today.

It looks Gore have their heads up in their wrong end. Whiteface was great, as always. Never ever regretted the 50 min more driving.

Does Gore want anyone else but their full season-pass holders showing up on closing days?

GK

Good point but Gore must be doing something right because they make the most profit of all the state owned areas. Happy you had a great experience at WF.  It is a great mountain.  I am a season pass holder and will be at Gore tomorrow.  It is what it is and the end is very near so everyone looks for a bargain.  It is a personal choice to ski where you want and if you don't want to ski Gore than so be it.  I really wish they would do things differently but this weekend whether they charge 20 bucks or 52, they are going to still lose money...I am just happy they are open.  Tucks Tucks Tucks!! 

True. And also certain WF loosing money this weekend just to stay open like most places, but when they say "Lift ticket prices will be $35 for adults, $30 for teens/seniors and $25 for juniors. C'mon out!" at least I feel they mean it. GK

Where did you get the information about Gore making more money than any NYS run ski area?