Hiker Dies in the White Mountains

You're right. I don't know her at all. It could very well have been that.

But, since I don't know her, she also might have read "Oh, The Places You'll Go" by Dr. Seuss and done the same thing.

JTG4eva! wrote

It could.  Hey, we don't know the woman, other than that she made a pretty big decision to proceed with a treacherous winter ascent in potentially (ultimately) deadly conditions.  Whether is was some heuristic process, hubris, ego, misplaced overconfidence.....she made a decision acting on her own self interests (desire to make the climb) with no regard to how that decision could affect others, including SAR and her family.  It cost her her life, jeopardized the lives of others, and left her family mourning.

JTG4eva! wrote

Hey, we don't know the woman, other than that she made a pretty big decision to proceed with a treacherous winter ascent in potentially (ultimately) deadly conditions.

As the OP (oh yeah, me!) mentioned, it would have been fascinating to hear the conversation in the car before the husband dropped off his wife. Even though she obviously was not going to be deterred, did he try to dissuade her?

I simply have a great deal of empathy for the woman's family and friends . I can not fathom the grief involved with dealing with such a loss .  RIP
 
Oh and Matt, More like CLINT EASTWOOD than any S&W. Characters  , especially when provoked . Call me any damn thing you wish.i've heard em all   But like most parents ,  any perceived pejorative ,unsolicited  condescention about those i care about lites me up  . Nuff said .

warp daddy wrote

Call me any damn thing you wish

That should be your sig line.

warp daddy wrote

 Call me any damn thing you wish.i've heard em all   But like most parents ,  any perceived pejorative ,unsolicited  condescention about those i care about lites me up  . Nuff said .

Well, for my part, sorry for calling your son and his friends Yuppies. Didn't know people took it as such a vile insult (I sincerely thought it meant "young urban professional"). Live and learn, I guess.

Matt we are now good . Have a great weekend  

mattchuck2 wrote

warp daddy wrote

 Call me any damn thing you wish.i've heard em all   But like most parents ,  any perceived pejorative ,unsolicited  condescention about those i care about lites me up  . Nuff said .

Well, for my part, sorry for calling your son and his friends Yuppies. Didn't know people took it as such a vile insult (I sincerely thought it meant "young urban professional"). Live and learn, I guess.

At my age I would consider it a compliment.

mattchuck2 wrote

Snowballs wrote

pud....fragile...infantile... dink....

It's sad that you're attacking me for "lashing out" when that seems to be exactly what you're doing.

As usual, you're the one who started the shitfest so quit your crying when I return serve. That's infantile. Also, you can't correctly whine cause I said you're " a pud, dink, etc " when those are attributes you ascribed to your own self.

It's the one thing you did get right. Hey, I was just agreeing with you ! Besides, others have said as much, in essence agreeing with you. Be happy you won that support for you being.....

mattchuck2 wrote

Don't need dick pills when you're a natural dick like me.

Back on topic. Good article on this in the Boston Globe. Fills in some questions:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/21/the-young-woman-and-mountain/SEBPucaGpA1Fun4R5uoj7K/story.html

mattchuck2 wrote

Good article on this in the Boston Globe.

Good article, this sounds more like what I had expected.

Thanks for the link Matt. It explains a lot. But not why she thought she could survive that forecast, which we may never know.  I'm sure her husband has some insight, maybe it will be shared at some date in the future. RIP.

Harvey wrote

Thanks for the link Matt. It explains a lot. But not why she thought she could survive that forecast,

Actually I think that was covered. What I read into this was that the winds were to hold off until she was below tree line. She likely timed it that way and was pretty confident in the ground she could cover but as it said, she dropped behind schedule and tried for an escape route.

The Boston Globe article is helpful. The one rescuer, Max Lurie, repeatedly bangs the gavel on what seems to be the obvious takeaway:
- "really inappropriate for anybody to be up there"
- "one of the coldest nights of the year and the wind was howling; I don’t go up there when there are conditions like that”
- “it was negligent for her to be up there”
- “her decision clearly speaks to her inexperience”

It seems like successfully climbing numerous high-profile mountains may have led her to severely underestimate the brutalizing conditions in the Presidentials.

Jamesdeluxe wrote

The Boston Globe article is helpful. The one rescuer, Max Lurie, repeatedly bangs the gavel on what seems to be the obvious takeaway:
- "really inappropriate for anybody to be up there"
- "one of the coldest nights of the year and the wind was howling; I don’t go up there when there are conditions like that”
- “it was negligent for her to be up there”
- “her decision clearly speaks to her inexperience”

It seems like successfully climbing numerous high-profile mountains may have led her to severely underestimate the brutalizing conditions in the Presidentials.

The arrogance of the hiker cannot be underestimated. Various pictures of the hiker show her to be pretty thin. For her to head out into a predicted 40mph wind alone was horrible judgment. When the wind picked up it probably took one gust to take her off her feet. The SAR guys were getting knocked off their feet.

There were bad decisions built on faith in technology that didn't work so well - the locator and the bad decision that she didn't even try to use her phone. Her safety net was the SAR teams. Ultimately and selfishly, she put many other lives in danger.

The article ends with basically describing the commitment heuristic.

I know all to well about making that mistake. These days I like to go into the mountains with "let's just go and see" attitude instead of having big plans and goals.

PeeTex wrote

Harvey wrote

Thanks for the link Matt. It explains a lot. But not why she thought she could survive that forecast,

Actually I think that was covered. What I read into this was that the winds were to hold off until she was below tree line. She likely timed it that way and was pretty confident in the ground she could cover but as it said, she dropped behind schedule and tried for an escape route.

I'd assumed that was a theory.  Personally I'm amazed at the accuracy of weather forecasting. Still that's a thin margin.

raisingarizona wrote

 go into the mountains with "let's just go and see" attitude instead of having big plans and goals.

The one quote -- “when you’re goal-oriented, that makes you successful in the business world. That also can put your blinders on.” -- seems to point at the careers of this couple (financial industry strivers) as complicit in a decisionmaking process that didn't show any respect for an absolutely deadly weather forecast. The whole thing was built upon a "thread the needle" scenario.

bumps wrote

raisingarizona wrote

 go into the mountains with "let's just go and see" attitude instead of having big plans and goals.

The one quote -- “when you’re goal-oriented, that makes you successful in the business world. That also can put your blinders on.” -- seems to point at the careers of this couple (financial industry strivers) as complicit in a decisionmaking process that didn't show any respect for an absolutely deadly weather forecast. The whole thing was built upon a "thread the needle" scenario.

Ya, you could really get a sense of the SARS people's frustration with these situations from reading that. You can't blame em for having a little bit of the "f-in city folk" attitude when as it also mentioned every holiday weekend they expect this sort of thing to happen. They have to risk their own lives because of people making bad choices.

Great article btw.

I think there is more to it then them being form the city and being professionals tho. The pressure's people have from the city and the desires to have these experiences in the outdoors and mountains puts them in a sometimes dangerous situation. I don't live in a big city just because I know I couldn't hack it. I would go insane and would likely put myself in dangerous situations when I had an opportunity to escape and be in the outdoors.

Heuristics are short cuts that our brains use to achieve optimal results. Sometimes it works, other times it's a trap. The truth is we all do it to some degree. It's human. I'm not sure if it's a disrespect to the weather forecast or she just basically refused to look at the red flags or danger, she felt this experience was so important her brain lied to her and she only saw the best possible outcome.

As I said, I have made some very bad decisions but I have been very lucky so far. In hindsight it's like WTF was I thinking?!? But at the time I only saw the prize of success and ignored the dangers.

One of my favorite quotes is "You start your life in the mountains with a handful of luck and hopefully gain a handful of knowledge before that luck runs out". This girls luck ran out unfortunately.

When I climbed Mt Rainier this past summer. I told myself to listen to my gut..So when I got blown off my feet , I turned around , even though others continued.. Obviously that part of her brain wasn't function that day..so sad..Also that particular arctic blast was headline news..You had to live in a cave not to know it was coming..

A different take:

http://northeastexplorer.com/wordpress/?p=1931