Hiker Dies in the White Mountains

Harvey wrote

A different take:

http://northeastexplorer.com/wordpress/?p=1931

Thanks Harv, that's more how I see it too. I don't think she was arrogant, selfish or stupid. Her poor judgement was not turning back sooner or hunkering down at Madison when she had the chance. I found almost comical that the article suggested she should of had a double wall tent, not only would that have been too heavy to carry given her plans  but they likely would have found her in Maine if she tried to set it up alone.

raisingarizona wrote

The article ends with basically describing the commitment heuristic.

I know all to well about making that mistake.

I've made that one too, still makes me cringe. Thankfully, I had someone there to talk some sense into me. When you set a destination and you are right there, it is hard to back down and the safety aspect of your brain shuts off a bit, it definitely doesn't speak as loud when you are in the moment compared to when you are Monday Morning QB'ing.

That said, I think she would not have suffered the commitment heuristic if she had more experience with the mountain range she set out to climb. JS over on T4T states that she had never climbed the Presidentials before and her big mountain experience was limited to guide services in which she didn't have to route plan or make decisions. I haven't seen that documented via a source but it would explain the entire situation very well.

Definitely crazy going up there, alone on that weekend. Was her planned route reasonable even in good weather ? Summer ? IDK, maybe someone here can comment.

Couldn't her conditioning have also been an issue ? She doesn't look that strong. The SAR appears to have made it further than she did, no ?

I agree with the Boston Globe writer who suggested she relied a bit heavy on electronics.    Had there not been the Emergency Search Device,  GPS and Cell phone technology, would she have gone or even planned that trip....if so, would she have done it alone?   Likely not.     Then knowing she was thus relying on this technology, appears she did not bridge the gap of whether that technology would work well below zero.....or if it did, if she could get it out to use it.    

I have seen parents filming their kids with Iphones at 15 degrees...they shut down with no wind.   My phone only works with my fingers exposed.  Yes there are the thin gloves that work on touch screens, but the buttons etc.    minus 67F.   How long would these batteries last, maybe she had extra sources for this.  The emergency device advises it works to minus 27F.    That said, I am sure a suit will be filed against a whole host of people including the device that said she was somewhere she wasn't.    It will settle and costs will go up.  

Just read an article on these emergency beacons.   SAR teams call them Yuppi 911.  While this hiker did and should have pressed the help button (though she should not have gone in the first place) they say that 47% of the calls are unnecessary.    "My bottled water tasted salty"   "My husband was snoring loud and I thought he was in trouble"  "My aunt told me to turn it on everytime I ski back country"  He never read the instructions and it took 3 months to locate him as he would turn it off and on before each run.    
 

My phone is a Motorola Droid Turbo which is the newest in the product line.  It has frozen up and shut down multiple times when I've been skiing.  Last night I had to take it out of its case and run it under the hand dryer in the bathroom to get it to turn on.  It is the only issue I see with that phone, especially that it is the one of the newest out there (I got it within a week of its release date in November).  My dad has a Samsung Galaxy S4 which he says has never shut off while skiing, but he doesn't use his phone as much when skiing as I do.  I have had my phone shut off at 10 degrees, so it definitely wouldn't work at colder temps.  At the temps mentioned above, my phone would be good as dead.  If you are going to be going into the backcountry in extreme conditions like these, you need a phone or some type of communication device that is designed to work in those conditions.

snoloco wrote

  If you are going to be going into the backcountry in extreme conditions like these, you need a phone or some type of communication device that is designed to work in those conditions.

Worst piece of advice possible

I:)skiing wrote

I agree with the Boston Globe writer who suggested she relied a bit heavy on electronics.    Had there not been the Emergency Search Device,  GPS and Cell phone technology, would she have gone or even planned that trip....if so, would she have done it alone?   Likely not.

People have long since over extended themselves in extreme conditions before that technology existed.

There is no way to know for sure. Was it the BG writer that suggested it or a SAR person being interviewed? In either case, that is nothing but 100% pure opinion. There is absolutely NO WAY to know that for a fact (or to disprove it, for that matter, but in either case not worth attributing as a cause since there is no way to know for sure).

When route planning, no one thinks "it is okay if I overextend because I can just trigger my safety device and someone else will save me, so my plan is sound." People just don't think like that.

Pretty surprised by all the conjecture. The incident is something that should be discussed and hopefully that people can learn from. But we need to be careful in over reaching and thinking we can piece it all together and draw facts when we are really just guessing and suggesting possibilities.

skimore wrote

snoloco wrote

  If you are going to be going into the backcountry in extreme conditions like these, you need a phone or some type of communication device that is designed to work in those conditions.

Worst piece of advice possible

That's kind of like saying if you bring at least 3 grand of your daddies money into the backcountry, everything will be ok.

skimore wrote

snoloco wrote

  If you are going to be going into the backcountry in extreme conditions like these, you need a phone or some type of communication device that is designed to work in those conditions.

Worst piece of advice possible

If I remember right, she had a emergency beacon. It didn't work properly..

traveling solo has it's risks and rewards..sometimes things just don't work out even if you have done everything right..  

skimore wrote

snoloco wrote

  If you are going to be going into the backcountry in extreme conditions like these, you need a phone or some type of communication device that is designed to work in those conditions.

Worst piece of advice possible

Not the worst piece of advice . . . it should just be the last piece of advice -- after advice such as "Be sure you have the knowledge and skills to accomplish what you are trying to do"; "Consult with local professionals on expected conditions, unknown dangers, tips and tricks"; "What are your Plans B, C and D when things start to go wrong" etc etc

Petronio

I think it was the SAR article - "she did everything right except being there in the first place..."  Hard for me to comprehend. Can't imagine being the husband, if only...

Regarding the technology, and the SAR blog alludes to this, is even had the technology been used and functioned perfectly she was 6 or so hours out before she realized/acknowledged the severity of the situation, which puts you at least that far out for any SAR...

Snowballs wrote

Definitely crazy going up there, alone on that weekend. Was her planned route reasonable even in good weather ? Summer ? IDK, maybe someone here can comment.

Couldn't her conditioning have also been an issue ? She doesn't look that strong. The SAR appears to have made it further than she did, no ?

Her plan was reasonable in good weather for a fit climber. Suggesting she was not strong is ridiculous, she summited Madison AND Adams that day, she had a ways to go but what she accomplished required a lot of strength.

PeeTex wrote

 Suggesting she was not strong is ridiculous, she summited Madison AND Adams that day, she had a ways to go

First of all, it was asking.....asking " Couldn't her conditioning have also been an issue  "  . Second, is that ridiculous ? How do we know it wasn't fatigue ? We don't. Any trip like that fatigue is always a factor. It can become debilitating.  As you stated, she had a ways to go and quite possibly did not have the strength/endurance to continue and finish. Finish is important.

Snowballs wrote

PeeTex wrote

 Suggesting she was not strong is ridiculous, she summited Madison AND Adams that day, she had a ways to go

First of all, it was asking.....asking " Couldn't her conditioning have also been an issue  "  . Second, is that ridiculous ? How do we know it wasn't fatigue ? We don't. Any trip like that fatigue is always a factor. It can become debilitating.  As you stated, she had a ways to go and quite possibly did not have the strength/endurance to continue and finish. Finish is important.

To be precise you said "she doesn't look that strong".
She was one strong lady to have done what she did. I'd like to see you hike Madison & Adams in 10 hours on a warm summer afternoon.

raisingarizona wrote

I think there is more to it then them being form the city and being professionals tho. The pressure's people have from the city and the desires to have these experiences in the outdoors and mountains puts them in a sometimes dangerous situation. I don't live in a big city just because I know I couldn't hack it. I would go insane and would likely put myself in dangerous situations when I had an opportunity to escape and be in the outdoors.

Rather than an urban/rural divide, I see pressures that result from a management/employment culture in 'Merica that finds 60–80 hour work weeks combined with less than four weeks of vacation perfectly normal. Considering the constraints forced upon us all by the time-money polarity, who amongst us hasn't tried to "thread the needle" once or twice in a dangerous manner?

Whether it's hiking the Presidentials in hurricane-force winds and sub-zero temps because the middle of a three-day weekend is the only window you have or slip-sliding your way through a blizzard on I-87 or I-91 some Sunday night, you're still taking your life in your hands. In our society, the former is crazy and the latter is "just the way it is."

Ya, there is something to that for sure. American culture is pretty ridiculous with the work ethic, especially in those north east coast city areas. It's that whole protestant work ethic.

It is a lot more laid back in the west and even more so in mountain towns. People live to live, not to work.

raisingarizona wrote

It is a lot more laid back in the west and even more so in mountain towns. People live to live, not to work.

Cheers to that RA!  When we were back East, my wife's office was run like an f'n prison.  Out here, when there is good snow, she rolls into work at noon.  Nobody says a thing because most of her office mates were out playing in the snow too.

I still look at this story, an have trouble understanding this woman's husband.  My wife is an extremely capable athlete... she is capable of handling herself very well in most remote wilderness scenarios.  I totally trust her judgment, but if this scenario were put in front of me, and she still want to go out... I would have put her in restraints.

nepa wrote

raisingarizona wrote

It is a lot more laid back in the west and even more so in mountain towns. People live to live, not to work.

Cheers to that RA!  When we were back East, my wife's office was run like an f'n prison.  Out here, when there is good snow, she rolls into work at noon.  Nobody says a thing because most of her office mates were out playing in the snow too.

I still look at this story, an have trouble understanding this woman's husband.  My wife is an extremely capable athlete... she is capable of handling herself very well in most remote wilderness scenarios.  I totally trust her judgment, but if this scenario were put in front of me, and she still want to go out... I would have put her in restraints.

Maybe he didn't like her that much? JK

Maybe while she was very experienced, he wasn't an outdoors person, and he was used to trusting her judgement.

Harvey wrote

Maybe while she was very experienced, he wasn't an outdoors person, and he was used to trusting her judgement.

I deleted some of my last post because Harvey said it much better and respectfully. It's what I was getting at but my post had too much far out speculation and it wasn't really appropriate.

But ya, what Harvey said.