How much is your dream worth?

I do have a pretty good understanding of physics. I have some formal training in it and my father has a Phd in the subject and was constantly teaching me.  I certainly don't think fossil fuels are going away anytime soon. I do think the government subsidizes all kinds of stuff. I'd like them to throw 1% of the defense budget toward removing our dependence on countries who hate us.

If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't have felt any conflict about this is they offered me a billion to frack my land.  It's because I'd like to see a cleaner future that I was (a bit) conflicted.

I'll assume that if someone offered to pay you to put a nuclear or coal fired plant in your yard you would go for it? IMO if you take the money and move it's still nimby.

Coach Z wrote

I'll say it again wind and solar don't work because we like to read this forum when it's dark out or it's not windy.  The grid does not store energy.

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

LOL!!

Harv, my Dad is a total physics geek as well. He was a pocket protector wearin, slide ruler kinda guy in college. Total nerd alert. We bust on him about that all the time. At family functions my Mom will bust out some old college pictures to give us all some good laughs. Physics majors are a special breed!!!


Why coach had to come in here and make this some kind of political BS is beyond me.  

Camp not sure about your dad but mine was (is) such an idealist that he could never fathom crime or corruption.  I'm told this is a common trait among physicists, who live in a theoretical world.  

"Why would he do that? It's not sustainable!"

BINGO!!

It must be logical or it doesn't make any sense

This is a pretty interesting alternative to a generator for homes.  Not really something that could take the place of the grid.

I'd have some questions about the safety of having that big of a battery array on my house though.  

Harvey wrote

Camp not sure about your dad but mine was (is) such an idealist that he could never fathom crime or corruption.  I'm told this is a common trait among physicists, who live in a theoretical world.  

"Why would he do that? It's not sustainable!"

You described my daughter to a T

Coach Z wrote

This is a pretty interesting alternative to a generator for homes.  Not really something that could take the place of the grid.

I'd have some questions about the safety of having that big of a battery array on my house though.

Generators have there own safety and pollution issues. I think I'm more comfortable with a battery, but for now I'm happy to ride out the occasional power outage.
The Elon Musk plan for inter-planetary domination includes electrifying everything except space travel, and converting the electric system to mostly solar.  There is plenty of solar energy available, but using it requires a more robust electric system, with much more energy storage.  That's why Solar City is selling batteries. It's not about replacing the grid, it's about increasing the grid's capacity to use solar energy.
I hope it all succeeds. More important, I hope I live long enough to see it.

mm

Harvey wrote

Camp not sure about your dad but mine was (is) such an idealist that he could never fathom crime or corruption.  I'm told this is a common trait among physicists, who live in a theoretical world.  

My father was a priest, a physicist and an actual rocket scientist, but he was very aware of the weakness of human nature. That probably came from being a priest or maybe working on nuclear weapon systems.  
I never though of it before, but he had kind of an unusual career path.

mm

It's coming. The advent of affordable home storage was key. The fact that businesses are now actively soliciting property owners to open " solar farms " is another milestone corner turned for the good. Apparently, they can make decent coin from it so it could now become self-fulfilling so to speak.

Yeah !!!  

mattchuck2 wrote

Coach Z wrote

I'll say it again wind and solar don't work because we like to read this forum when it's dark out or it's not windy.  The grid does not store energy.

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

These things look pretty cool, though I have no idea how the economics of it would work. I remember hearing a long radio discussion a couple years back where a guy was advocating something like this for decommissioned power packs from electric vehicles (after the end of the cars' useful lifespan of course). It was presented as a way to mitigate the cost and environmental problems of these big batteries. Struck me as a good idea back then but of course electric vehicles have to catch on before retired battery packs are available to be reused that way.

Snowballs wrote

The fact that businesses are now actively soliciting property owners to open " solar farms " is another milestone corner turned for the good. Apparently, they can make decent coin from it so it could now become self-fulfilling so to speak.

I think that business is over now, at least in New York.  The PSC shut that down by eliminating remote net metering. That's why those guys are all over the Adirondacks selling small projects.The remote net metered projects (like ORDA's) sell back to the grid at a higher price than they pay for purchases.  That business model doesn't work.  
FWIW we advised one of our clients to pass on one of those deals because the developer wasn't adequately financed.  We looked pretty smart when he went out of business.

mm

I'm weighting a propane generator as a back up as I have a buried large propane tank in our yard as that is what we heat and cook with.  That is much safer and cleaning burning than a gas generator.

The price of this thing is not too bad but it only covers a one day back up.  A propane set up could last over a week if I have a full tank.

Musk pushing batteries makes sense as he owns a battery mfr plant.  Pure self interest with that guy.

Coach Z wrote

Pure self interest with that guy.

Also known as capitalism.

Coach Z wrote

 That is much safer and cleaning burning than a gas generator.

Musk pushing batteries makes sense as he owns a battery mfr plant.  Pure self interest with that guy.

Oh, please. Bringing good and needed products to market is a great thing. On this energy issue Coach, you're a bit of an old dog - new tricks fella.

Gasoline generators suck in more ways than one. Besides being very limited, they are expensive to operate for long periods, need constant refueling, generally a pain in him ass.

Snowballs wrote

Coach Z wrote

 That is much safer and cleaning burning than a gas generator.

Musk pushing batteries makes sense as he owns a battery mfr plant.  Pure self interest with that guy.

Oh, please. Bringing good and needed products to market is a great thing. On this energy issue Coach, you're a bit of an old dog - new tricks fella.

Gasoline generators suck in more ways than one. Besides being very limited, they are expensive to operate for long periods, need constant refueling, generally a pain in him ass.

I agree completely on gas generators.  Having one without a supply of fuel is pretty stupid and as most recent hurricanes or other nat dasisters have shown you can't either get to the gas station or they don't have gas.  That is why a propane generator makes more sense if you already have a 800 lb propane tank buried in your yard like I do.  This batter pack is also interesting and priced pretty well but will only last a day maybe longer if used judiciously.  Batteries have some safety issues of course but so does having a bunch of gas sitting around.

If you think Musk is doing all this out of the goodness of his heart though I have to say the guy is really out to make money.

The government doesn't care one bit about these people's  dream.

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/the-last-alaskans/about-the-last-alaskans/

All they want is a very simple, self sustaining, unbelievably hard life to live for themselves and their families for generations to come.

If he doesn't do it someone from China will.  They have a clear need to get off fossil fuels.  I like to think that I'm a green type of person, but it really works when it meets with business, not rules it out.....so, go Musk!

Let's build the batteries here and sell it to the Chinese rather than vice versa.  In fact, let's use solar panels to electrolize water and create hydrogen.  That way we can use fuel cells when the sun isn't shining enough.  To top it off, that lessens the need for nuclear power plants.  I don't mind nuclear, but I'd rather not have the waste, nor the target for terrorism.  Not to mention that micro generation has almost no loss in transmission versus large scale power plants.  Do you know how far James Bay (Hydro Quebec's major source of power) is from the Adirondacks?

BTW, I'd much rather have batteries in my garage than a propane tank.  Although yours is buried, Coach, when propane tanks explode, they do so at a multiplier of 20x of the size of the tank (source:  my captain when I was a volunteer fire fighter).

DB Cooper u the man!!  Im with Cooper!

Coach Z wrote

If you think Musk is doing all this out of the goodness of his heart though I have to say the guy is really out to make money.

Musk is way past doing it for the money.  Wall Street guys are in it for the money.  If they have a choice between world peace or arbitraging baby tears, they're going with whichever makes more money.  Musk is trying to be a guy like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, who essentially creates a whole new world. He is a HowardRoarkAynRand superhero who deserves to keep everything he gets.

Unless you are socialist.  Then he is just another capitalist exploiter of the proletariat.

mm