Hunter's 6 pack and F lift

snoloco wrote

Total shit show is putting it lightly.  Shame on Peak Resorts for cutting corners on maintenance.  Windham and Belleayre are going to be packed.

Belleayre had the most cars i've ever seen there on sunday.  From the midway parking lot, the cars stretched down to about the turn where it heads to the right down hill.  Still no lift line on lift 7 though!

I agree that it had the most cars I've ever seen. There was also no lift line at Tomahawk either!

Just got in from a couple hours of hooky...

Rode the front face a bunch....  Racers,Ike, Juega...  Top to bottoms...
6 Pack was working fine.   I didn't check on the F chair - they don't run it during the week usually..
Snow was warm and sloppy in places and fast in the shade..

Was really nice out  - hated to come back and work...

 

Dear Season Passholder,
 
The past week and a half has been a whirlwind for us here. As we were ramping up for President’s Weekend, one of our worst fears occurred: the Kaatskill Flyer went down due to what ended up being an electrical issue. At that time, F-lift had also been down due to electrical issues.

Traditionally when we post updates to social media, we summarize and condense the nitty gritty details. This allows us to provide you with accurate updates in the most timely manner possible while still being sufficiently informative. We hoped that our guests trusted that we were doing everything in our power to fix these issues as soon as possible because hey, we live for the winter season, we live for skiing and riding, and this is what we all do and love. However, we saw that a number of you voiced your frustrations, and for that we are sorry.

With that said, we are now providing you with all the details regarding the series of unfortunate events that unraveled as we worked toward fixing the lift issues. We hope that this clears up any misinformation, rumors, and ill feelings that you might have. Ultimately, we hope you understand that while you were frustrated as a skier or rider, we were also frustrated – because just when we thought we were taking two steps forward, we ended up a few steps back.

Before reading the timelines below, please note that we’ll be using the term “drive” often. “Drive,” in this case, is a major part of the lift that controls many functions of the motor including starting, stopping, converting electricity, and controlling the speed. “Panel” is another term we’ll use. Our drive unit is comprised of 4 “plug-in” panels, each weighing 375lbs (unfortunately not a spare part that we can simply stock on site).


TIMELINE FOR THE KAATSKILL FLYER:
At approximately 3:45pm last Tuesday when the Flyer went down, we discovered that one of the panels within the Flyer’s drive unit stopped working.
We immediately contacted the support team for our lift manufacturer. They made arrangements to ship a spare panel to us from Colorado. The part had to be transported to the airport from Breckenridge, so unfortunately the part could not be shipped until Wednesday evening.
Thursday morning we received the part. Upon plugging it in, another panel blew.
We called the manufacturer and they got another part ready to ship to Albany International Airport Thursday night.
Friday morning, our Lift Operations Manager was at Albany International at 6am, only to be told that the airplane never left Colorado due to mechanical issues.
We then had the manufacturing company put the part on another plane and had it delivered first class so that it would arrive Saturday morning.
Saturday morning, our Lift Operations Manager headed back to Albany International and picked up the part.
When we plugged in the second panel Saturday morning, it was not communicating properly with the first replacement panel. By this time, the president of the manufacturing company, electricians from the manufacturing company, and our master electricians from Peak Resorts were all on site to work through this.
After working through the night, they were able to figure out a solution to get the motor running for Sunday (at half capacity to ensure the motor ran as smoothly as possible).
A third replacement panel arrived Wednesday. The part has been installed and the Flyer is now back to running at full capacity.

TIMELINE FOR F-LIFT:
Over this past summer, we completely replaced F-Lift’s motor and were confident this would resolve the issues it had had in the past.
During the current season, when we realized that replacing the motor did not in fact resolve issues with F-Lift, the drive engineer for the lift company replaced several components and believed it was now ready to go.
After this was not enough, we pulled the motor out yet again and rebuilt it.
This did not work. We sent it to the motor company again, at which time they tested the motor and CONFIRMED it was working properly.
Upon receiving it back, it failed again, which lead us to believe it could possibly be the drive. We asked the drive engineer to look into it and he confirmed that the drive itself was also working properly.
As of now, the motor engineer and the drive engineer have been in direct contact for the last week. They will provide us with an update when they figure out what the issue is. We will then move forward with their recommendation on how to fix F-Lift.


We’ll say this again – it’s been a whirlwind. While we keep spare lift parts stocked on site and are fortunate to employ numerous highly skilled mechanics and electricians, sometimes issues arise that are out of our hands. When that happens, we do whatever we can to resolve the issue as soon as possible. In this case, it was over-nighting parts, bringing in specialists from the manufacturer, and waiting for their recommendations and instruction.

We are a company that values our customers and strives to create the best experience possible. We have been since 1959 and continue to be as part of the Peak Resorts family. To see our guests dissatisfied makes us feel defeated, especially when we know we are doing everything in our power to fix the issue. Now that the Flyer has been fixed and we continue to work with engineers on F-Lift, we are focused on moving forward and ensuring we continue this season on a high note; we hope you will do the same.

 
Thank you for taking the time to read this and for your understanding.
 
Sincerely,


 
Russ Coloton
GM & President, Hunter Mountain

Yikes, what a mess!

oh please..

I still think they charged full fare during this debacle...if that's the case ..shame shame

Given the fact that the end of February 2017 was quite warm and the last two weeks of February 2018 were more like April two decades ago, all of these problems are beginning to look trite. I have been skiing since the early 70's and can state with confidence that Winter has changed. There is no political consensus or will in this country to try and stem Global Warming, so whether or not a lift breaks and there is no discount on ticket prices is small change to the inevitable shrinking of what even in the best of times was an unstable season. Of course we could try and get together and do something. I'm too old and have been fighting some fights like this all my life. When I see the kids in Florida finally saying enough and standing strong I don't doubt that things still can be done, about many things like global warming,  I really wonder how much  longer my grandchildren will be able to ski in the East if we all don't wake up, and of course that is secondary to the greater tragedies that will come to South Louisiana , the coasts of North Carolina and Jersey, lower Manhattan , Miami, and many third world countries .  This may be off topic but you can fix a lift for next year, but bigger problems are in the offering.

As a Mechatronics guy who works regularly with Motor "drives" and "panels" I can tell you that these kinds of equipment failures are not uncommon in any industry. There's so much technology that goes into modern day equipment like a chairlift. It's no longer just a motor driving a ropeway. There's so many other components involved that 99.9% of people never see or even realize exists. An equipment failure with a timeline like this would be completely unacceptable for many companies, and would be remedied in a day or two.

I can also tell you that I don't think they went about the troubleshooting process properly, and they are clearly giving us some mis-information here. First of all, an entire "panel" doesn't just completely "stop working properly." A panel is comprised of an enclosure, and a variety of different components most likely including a PLC with expansion modules which adds a whole other layer of things that can go wrong in the programming. they are built application specific, and it's not a single component that can go bad like they are saying. Unless the whole thing went up in flames, I highly doubt that the entire panel stopped working.

Here's a panel from an SMI Wizzard with O/B compressor, 480VAC 3Ø power circuit and 120VAC single Ø control circuit. just as an example of what I'm talking about. this one's pretty simple, no PLCs. 

This is more what a PLC panel looks like. The thing in the upper left is actually a small "drive" (VFD) but for a 700 HP lift it would be WAY bigger than that, and would occupy a large enclosure itself.  

That being said, troubleshooting should have been performed within the panel, referring to the schematic and checking for continuity where applicable before it was assumed to be broken. Checking the PLC components as well as checking the PLC program for errors should have been performed as well. They say that when they got the first new panel, another one "blew". Again, I don't think the entire panel blew. This indicates to me that there was most likely an issue with the PLC programming which should receive feedback from sensory mechanisms as well as have electrical interlocks built in to the program. When working properly, this will prevent equipment failures, and provide an indication of the problem. The PLCs and input/output modules are usually located in a separate panel.

Sure, things don't always go as planned, but I think if their "master electricians" really knew what they were doing, they would have taken a much different approach to the troubleshooting process. A lot of electricians don't totally understand process control electronics.

Also, the approach to the F-lift seems weird. If you have an issue with a motor, you don't just replace it. You test it. Testing a motor is a simple process that could have been completed in house by their "master electricians". If it tests good, no need to replace it. For an electrician who doesn't really understand the control process, it's easy to assume that if the motor isn't running properly that it's a bad motor when really there are a lot of things that could be going wrong before the power even gets to the motor.

This is just what's running through my head when I read the post from Hunter. I guess I shouldn't make assumptions without actually being on site, but based on the information given, it sounds to me like they don't understand proper troubleshooting.

Sounds like a lot of this is on Leitner Poma customer service since they botched the shipping and sent defective parts.

My guess is Peak Resorts won't sign with them on any future lift contracts and will go with Skytrac or Doppelmayr.

Ethan Snow wrote

I guess I shouldn't make assumptions without actually being on site ...

Yeah ... Maybe just go with that thought.

Face4Me wrote

Ethan Snow wrote

I guess I shouldn't make assumptions without actually being on site ...

Yeah ... Maybe just go with that thought.

That was just a disclaimer. I still think they had incompetent workers on site.

If it were up to me, I'd go back to the days of manual motor starters, and simple 3 wire control circuitry for the sensory mechanics and start/stop buttons.

I strongly believe in the KISS principle.

Workhorse Hall lifts.  Another nod for Platty over Hunter.  Just sayin'.

I agree. A big part of this is due to the simplicity of the electrical components.

Marcski wrote

Workhorse Hall lifts.  Another nod for Platty over Hunter.  Just sayin'.

Yup

Brownski wrote

Yup

I immediately thought of Broski when I saw marcski's post. Stuff em in those fixed grip chairs!

Ethan Snow wrote

Face4Me wrote

Ethan Snow wrote

I guess I shouldn't make assumptions without actually being on site ...

Yeah ... Maybe just go with that thought.

That was just a disclaimer. I still think they had incompetent workers on site.

Come on now. Unless you know somebody one site, you don't know squat about what happened.

Classic example of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Having worked industrial drive systems back in the day in Newark NJ, I tend to agree with Snow on all counts. Most properly trained "techs" will nail down root cause of issues associated with these systems in a timely fashion. I'm not quoting any timelines for obvious reasons. I'm surprised to hear of both sagas as reported.
And..."Our drive unit is comprised of 4 “plug-in” panels, each weighing 375lbs (unfortunately not a spare part that we can simply stock on site). "......say what?  What does 375 lbs have to do with the inability to have these "panels" in their spares inventory on site? Maybe I'm missing something here. Sounds a bit off.

I think it's more the cost of the panel than the physical weight. I bet they're very expensive to just have sitting around.

My whole argument was over the fact that a "panel" can not simply be looked at as one item. It's an abundance of items that all work together to perform a task. You would be more likely to keep a variety of components around rather than an entire panel. You can also order many of these components and have them overnight shipped (which they say they did.) The whole thing doesn't just blow up all together. A properly trained tech should have been able to find the problem within the panel, and replace the individual component(s) as necessary.

I would tend to think since they claim the drive has 4 "panels" it would behove them to have a spare on site, in stock. This would help to expidite repairs if their staff wound up stumped as to which component(s) were defective. This is assuming the staff even knew which "panel" was defective. Yes, historically,  the odds of both lifts to the summit going down at the same time is not a common occurrence, but when the shit hits the fan, getting one or the other back on line is critical.

hey  equipment craps out , it happens...

my issue is that they still charged full price..maybe give a food discount or another lift ticket to be used this year...something