I heard a Magic rumor at Stratton this weekend..

A long time Stratton passholder, who joined me in the long URSA line on Saturday, told be she heard that Magic was buying one of Stratton's older triples.  She said they were going to copter it over the Magic this summer, I assume to replace the black chair.

It certainly sounded feasible, but I haven't heard any smoke regarding this the entire winter.  

Has anyone heard anything?

I can check it out.

Stratton is replacing the 1986 Poma Snow Bowl Quad with a Doppelmayr HSQ.

This means they are likely relocating it to replace their 1977 Borvig Tamarack Triple rather than just scrapping it and Magic wants to buy that one.

The Tamarack lift is 3500 feet long while Black is about 5000 feet long so they'd need a new haulrope.  To utilize the existing drive they'd run less chairs.  They'd also need to acquire some more towers or have Partek fabricate new ones.

I checked this rumor at the top, this is not happening.

That's a bummer I suppose.  Having 2 lifts rolling all winter is a must for future Magic.

Pure speculation: Another lift is on their mind, maybe they are trying to rack up a few profitable years before taking on more debt?

I'd like to interview Geoff this summer.

I asked one of my contacts who really knows his s*it about everything lifts, and he says that trying to rebuild the 82 Borvig Green and keep the one of a kind from the 60's Black going makes no sense.  There are serviceable nicer lifts that they could've had for free.

Stratton's SnowBowl Quad and Windham's Whistler Triple are in very good condition mechanically but are being replaced by new detachables, and could potentially be given away to some small local ski areas for free if they are not reused within their current homes.

snoloco wrote

I asked one of my contacts who really knows his s*it about everything lifts, and he says that trying to rebuild the 82 Borvig Green and keep the one of a kind from the 60's Black going makes no sense.  There are serviceable nicer lifts that they could've had for free.

Stratton's SnowBowl Quad and Windham's Whistler Triple are in very good condition mechanically but are being replaced by new detachables, and could potentially be given away to some small local ski areas for free if they are not reused within their current homes.

I seriously doubt that either of those areas would give the lifts away for "free". They are not charitable organizations and as a minimum the lifts have scrap value. Not that they wouldn't possible give a volunteer run area some old equipment but Stratton would definitely not give a lift to a for profit competitor that you can see from their slopes. They may make a deal where, if they removed the lift, they could have it, but the cost of removal would have to be equivalent to the lift value.

As far as "old" lifts go; I have sold large process machinery for 30+ years. This also includes retrofitting and upgrading older equipment as old as 50 years old. Lifts may be big but are not terribly complicated machines. If there is no rust in the towers that would weaken them, parts can be replaced and upgraded. That can include new drives and safety sensors to meet current standards. There are many 50+ year old Halls that are still running fine today. The first chairlift I ever rode 47 yrs ago is still running fine today.

It's quite common for larger ski areas to essentially give away old equipment to smaller ones (that they don't compete with) for pennies on the dollar.

I know for a fact that my previous statement is true.

While there are many 50 year old Hall lifts out there, there are so many that there's a market for support and spare parts for them.  The Black Chair is one of a kind and there are no spare parts available unless custom made, and every band aid fix they do on it, it breaks again.  It's time to stop throwing good money after bad and just totally give up on that lift and replace with a serviceable used lift that would pay for itself in a year with all the money they've spent on the Black Chair and lost business from having to limit ticket sales when it's down.

The Green Chair is salvageable.  Borvig lifts are under Partek support.  But it's the only contractor that can totally bring it back.  It hasn't operated for over 20 years (was Betwixed lift at Stratton) and it's still probably cheaper to replace with a lift that was removed a year or two ago.

snoloco wrote

It's quite common for larger ski areas to essentially give away old equipment to smaller ones (that they don't compete with) for pennies on the dollar.

I know for a fact that my previous statement is true.

While there are many 50 year old Hall lifts out there, there are so many that there's a market for support and spare parts for them.  The Black Chair is one of a kind and there are no spare parts available unless custom made, and every band aid fix they do on it, it breaks again.  It's time to stop throwing good money after bad and just totally give up on that lift and replace with a serviceable used lift that would pay for itself in a year with all the money they've spent on the Black Chair and lost business from having to limit ticket sales when it's down.

The Green Chair is salvageable.  Borvig lifts are under Partek support.  But it's the only contractor that can totally bring it back.  It hasn't operated for over 20 years (was Betwixed lift at Stratton) and it's still probably cheaper to replace with a lift that was removed a year or two ago.

I agree that ski areas give away old equipment to community areas. Those are their feeder hills and they get a write-off in most cases as the areas are nonprofits. But they do not give away chairlifts to for profit ski areas.
I think the owners of Magic know that they need a new lift to replace Black. But they also saw previous owners go broke. They are making improvements but conservatively. At the time they calculated the cost to fix black as the best option given the limited capital that they had and the other capital  projects needed at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 vision but regardless, I seriously doubt that a new chair was an option at the time.
By the way; Have you ever even skied there?

trackbiker wrote

I think the owners of Magic know that they need a new lift to replace Black. But they also saw previous owners go broke. They are making improvements but conservatively.

Yes.

snoloco wrote

It's quite common for larger ski areas to essentially give away old equipment to smaller ones (that they don't compete with) for pennies on the dollar.

I know for a fact that my previous statement is true.

While there are many 50 year old Hall lifts out there, there are so many that there's a market for support and spare parts for them.  The Black Chair is one of a kind and there are no spare parts available unless custom made, and every band aid fix they do on it, it breaks again.  It's time to stop throwing good money after bad and just totally give up on that lift and replace with a serviceable used lift that would pay for itself in a year with all the money they've spent on the Black Chair and lost business from having to limit ticket sales when it's down.

The Green Chair is salvageable.  Borvig lifts are under Partek support.  But it's the only contractor that can totally bring it back.  It hasn't operated for over 20 years (was Betwixed lift at Stratton) and it's still probably cheaper to replace with a lift that was removed a year or two ago.

I find the fact that you know so much about ski lifts at your age both impressive and peculiar at the same time.  Is it a hobby for you or something you see yourself involved with in a future career?

Yes and Yes

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

snoloco wrote

I find the fact that you know so much about ski lifts at your age both impressive and peculiar at the same time.  Is it a hobby for you or something you see yourself involved with in a future career?

I've talked to him about this....I think he wants to be a G.M., but I think he's better suited to be an ops guy, or work for Doppelmayr or Poma, maybe as a design or support engineer.

D.B. Cooper wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

snoloco wrote

I find the fact that you know so much about ski lifts at your age both impressive and peculiar at the same time.  Is it a hobby for you or something you see yourself involved with in a future career?

I've talked to him about this....I think he wants to be a G.M., but I think he's better suited to be an ops guy, or work for Doppelmayr or Poma, maybe as a design or support engineer.

I stand by my prediction that Sno's gonna end up teaching sixth grade science- or maybe math

Brownski wrote

I stand by my prediction that Sno's gonna end up teaching sixth grade science- or maybe math

"Not that there's anything wrong with that!"

bumps wrote

Brownski wrote

I stand by my prediction that Sno's gonna end up teaching sixth grade science- or maybe math

"Not that there's anything wrong with that!"

Ha ha- yes - exactly

D.B. Cooper wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

snoloco wrote

I find the fact that you know so much about ski lifts at your age both impressive and peculiar at the same time.  Is it a hobby for you or something you see yourself involved with in a future career?

...I think he wants to be a G.M.,

Then he has work to do on his people skills. If you want to lead people you need to learn how to inspire those you want to follow you.

The rumor was correct!

BIG NEWS: Stratton's Snow Bowl Poma Quad lift is heading to Magic to replace Black Chair!

Our press release from this morning is below on the news. This a major investment by SKI MAGIC LLC in our mountain's future and in improving your experience here as skiers and riders:  lift lines to the absolute minimum; reliable family-oriented lift service; and, keeping our slopes free of heavy traffic (by continuing our commitment to fixed-grip over detachable high-speed lifts)! We plan to have this Quad lift operating for the 2018-19 season (pending state permitting), along with our new base-to-mid mountain Green Double. Thank you for all your support by making plans to ski and ride here at Magic! (Our Early Bird season pass sale ends May 15th next week.)
 
Press Release:
 
Stratton’s Snow Bowl Poma Quad Lift Heading Across the Valley to Magic Mountain
 --Another Major Upgrade by SKI MAGIC LLC Will Replace Magic’s Current Black Chair Summit Lift--
 
Londonderry, VT, May 9, 2018 – Magic Mountain is purchasing and installing Stratton’s current “Snow Bowl” Poma fixed-grip quad chairlift as a new base-to-summit lift for the 2018/19 season. The Poma quad lift will replace Magic’s current “Black Chair” which had been operating as a double passenger capacity lift. The new lift at Magic will follow a similar lift line up the Black Line trail to the summit with a slightly higher terminal station in order to access all trails at Magic.
 
Magic’s new Poma quad lift, originally built in 1986 and installed at Stratton’s Snow Bowl area, comes with 148 chairs, a 2,000 skier per hour capacity, and has an excellent performance and maintenance record at Stratton. It will service approximately 1,500 vertical feet with the lift line stretching about 5,000 feet long. The lift will add significant uphill capacity in combination with Magic’s current “Red Chair” double summit lift and another new installation to be completed this off season of a base-to-mid mountain Borvig double passenger lift (“Green Chair”). The current Black Chair, which the Poma Quad will replace, only had 113 chairs, was approved as a two-person carrier, and therefore had a maximum capacity of just 620 riders per hour. The Poma Quad therefore effectively triples Magic’s uphill capacity over the current lift.
 
“When we heard Stratton was replacing their Snow Bowl lift with a new high-speed detachable, four-passenger lift, our investor group jumped on the opportunity to try and purchase their Poma fixed-grip quad”, said Geoff Hatheway, President of SKI MAGIC LLC. “For our ski community, this lift is a huge upgrade that meets and manages our current and future growth expectations, better fulfills customer desires for quality, reliable lift service at Magic, and sustains our reputation as an area with both minimal lift lines and low on-slope skier density.”
 
Stratton is taking down the Snow Bowl lift this month and then Magic will have the lift transported across the valley (about 15 miles) to its Londonderry location.
 
“It’s great to see this dependable lift live on in southern Vermont, and I want to acknowledge Bill Nupp, President and COO of Stratton, and all our neighbors there for making this purchase happen”, continued Geoff Hatheway. “We occupy a very different place in the industry than Stratton, but Bill and his team really wanted to make this possible for us. It’s a true example of the big guy on the block helping the little guy out and supporting the diversity of experiences uniquely available here in southern Vermont—all within just a few miles of each other.”
 
Magic plans for its lift contractors to begin work this summer and fall on the new summit Black Line Poma Quad, after the installation is complete on the mid-mountain Green Lift. Magic will operate the new quad as the primary summit lift every weekend and holiday period, with the famed Red Chair continuing as an additional lift on busy weekends plus pulling main duty on lighter traffic weekdays.
 
In total, this will be a major $1 million capital investment in the new lift by SKI MAGIC LLC which will help attract more skiers and riders to the southern Vermont and Windham County region who are interested in a classic, old-school mountain vibe.

--End Release--

We will keep you all posted throughout the "off" season on both lift projects and our snowmaking pond expansion project. Also, the actual Black Chair from the old lift will be available for purchase for $300/chair. If you'd like to reserve one or two, please email info@magicmtn.com with your phone number.
 
We hope to see you this summer when the Black Line Tavern re-opens on June 28th as we kick-off summer disc golf, summer music series and more.
 
Magic IS happening!

- Geoff
SKI MAGIC LLC
Where skiing still has its soul.