Innovative ski business practices

Besides teaching skiing I also have a MBA and am always on the lookout for unique and innovative business practices as well as what could be fixed or improved.  Here are some of that most innovative and successful ski business ideas I've seen the past year or so.  

Please add to the list as well as post what any given ski area or the industry in genral needs to improve on.  This is not intended to be a b!$cht session so only post a negative if you have a positive fix to it.

Best Lift ticket Promo
Copper Mt's pass for $99 that gets you free skiing anytime they get 4 or more inches of snow overnight.  They advertised this all over the internet
http://www.coppercolorado.com/winter/plan_and_buy/season_passes/snowdaypass

Best Lodging Promo
Grand Targhee - free lifts for any other areas pass holders when you purchase lodging

Best non traditional marketing campaign
Whiteface's summer promo of showing up at beaches etc to promote skiing at Whiteface

Best overall marketing and management in the Northeast
Jay Peak - Raised Jay and Move on Up are both great campaigns and they do lots of TV spots.  The addition of the Pump house and new lodging seem to have really rasised their game from a remote hard core ski area to a family destination.  They are now thinking out of the box by making snow to stay open and be the only game in town.  It seems to be working as lodging was sold out for last night for the Tram House and the new hotel.  They are not having to discount in the spring like they did in years past to fill rooms.  It certainly doesn't hurt to have more natural snow than anywhere else but its what you do with that blessing that counts.  You got to spend money to make money and they seem willing to do that.

Best web site - i couldn't make my mind up here - please help.

Well, personally, what works for me is more than one mountain on a pass. The Vail Corp Epic pass is the ultimate in that. Now they are making Tahoe much cheaper to ski with Heavenly and Kirkwood merging. I just skied with a buddy out there who is living in Colorado and has an Epic, and he skied two expensive mountains for free when he visited us. I wish and hope and pray that Killington and Sugarbush merge again on one pass.

Can't agree about the Bush and Killington, how about a PlattyBush pass???

I think incentives should be created to spread skiers across more lifts on a mountain.  At Whiteface, I think that too many ski the gondola and don't use Facelift, LWD, Freeway, etc.

For example at Whiteface, a two-teired price system for day tickets may create an incentive, the more expensive ticket would allow gondola access, the lower priced ticket would be for all other lifts except the gondola.  

Another option would be to price each lift.  In other words, an alternative to buying a season pass would be to create an "EZ-Pass"-like account.  A skier would deposit an amount, say $500, if they ski the gondola they would pay a higher per trip rate than a skier who chooses the LWF double.  Every lift trip would be debited from their account. Again, I think this would create an incentive for skiers to use the other lifts that Whiteface offers.  The account could also be used for food, lessons, etc.  Secondly, there could be peak and off-peak pricing.

ADKarver wrote

I think incentives should be created to spread skiers across more lifts on a mountain.  At Whiteface, I think that too many ski the gondola and don't use Facelift, LWD, Freeway, etc.

For example at Whiteface, a two-teired price system for day tickets may create an incentive, the more expensive ticket would allow gondola access, the lower priced ticket would be for all other lifts except the gondola.  

Another option would be to price each lift.  In other words, an alternative to buying a season pass would be to create an "EZ-Pass"-like account.  A skier would deposit an amount, say $500, if they ski the gondola they would pay a higher per trip rate than a skier who chooses the LWF double.  Every lift trip would be debited from their account. Again, I think this would create an incentive for skiers to use the other lifts that Whiteface offers.  The account could also be used for food, lessons, etc.  Secondly, there could be peak and off-peak pricing.

Interesting concept there ADK.  Here's a spin on it - by using other lifts instead of the Gondi at peak times you earn points good for food or bar discounts.  One issue is that they don't scan passes at any lift except at the bottom at Whiteface.

I also agree with Benny about the season passes.  I used to work at Killington and had an a so called "all otten" pass which i was able to use the Bush, Sugarloaf, Steamboat, Heavenly, etc.  I would have to assume that Bellarye will be coming to Orda season passes soon.

To bring the youth to the market (Youth defined as 16 to 25)  open a cot room.     Similar to a homelss shelter.   For $30 bucks a night, kids could "spring break" or "camp" at Gore (wherever) with a mear "counsler" to oversee the kids before the 12:00 night time call.       A few TVs for them to bring video games, arcade machines, popcorn and mass produced food---Soup and PBJ for lunch and dinner--ok maybe pizza.    

Parents pay $500/wk or more to camps to watch their kids.    There are weeks or long weekends where parents would bring the kids up, or they could just drive.    

Two price tiers:   16-25.   No lessons,  just a place to bunk and hang out.    If curfew becomes a problem, keep the ages to under 21.   Or have two rooms, under 21 and over 21.  

12-16....with more volunteer (for lift tickets) counselers.   This could also give the ski instructors something to do mid-week, 2 hr lesson.    I may be wrong here, but I heard that ORDA instructors get paid a full day salary for showing up.   Unlike other mountains  where you only get paid if you teach.     Again, I may be wrong on that---AND JELOUS !   Worried about loosing them?..Put GPS trackers on this group.  They are cheep.  


Summer ski camps sucessfully do this for what I might think are huge profits..Mt Hood, BC  6 day camps are $1000 but lessons are provided.    

RFID---chips for kids Camp.


I was told some mountains are testing this.     RFID chips placed on kids for two reasons:  1) if they get lost, you can see them if/when they cross a reader, say at every lift, snow area exit, restroom, cafeteria etc.       2) For parents to LURK over their kids from a distance.    Use their Iphone App to find their kid and watch the lesson progress.      3) it would be fun for the parents and kids to watch all the times/places the kid was during the day.    This would be especially fun for big western resorts or areas like Kmart.  

AND, the Beeper police at the lifts would not have to delay the lessons...RFID passes for them.    I hate that...my kids are wearing numbered bibs for crimany sake and you are beeping their passes?   Really?    Vent over.  

I:)skiing wrote

This could also give the ski instructors something to do mid-week, 2 hr lesson.    I may be wrong here, but I heard that ORDA instructors get paid a full day salary for showing up.   Unlike other mountains  where you only get paid if you teach.     Again, I may be wrong on that---AND JELOUS !  

I can verify that you did in fact hear wrong.  99% of Orda snow sport instructors are part time and only get paid when we teach.

There are very few full timers - only maybe 2 or 3 at WF that are "on the clock" and I would assume a similairly small number at Gore.  These instructors do get paid for a full 8 hours a day but they are kept very busy and have first dibs on any group lessons because of this.  The negative is that they can't earn as much on private lessons as part timers do.  Supervisors and Management are on the clock but don't typically teach the public much unless they are out of regular instructors.  

I can also assure you no one is getting rich teaching skiing at Orda venues. We do it because we love the sport and sharing it with others. The only instructors in the US actually making a good living are out at Vail, Aspen, Deer Valley and the like.  I hear European instructors can also make a decent living.

Thanks Z.  And I know you are in the know.  Funny that a Gore instructor told me this, maybe I missed the part that they were full time?       Did not want thread to go astray though.    This is a good one.    

For part-timers:  Now they would have lessons--or Ski with Me's.     A group of eight 14 yr olds would be a blast for the day.    Win-win.    Weekends 100 dollars/day gets you a ski guide, basic lunch, dinner and a cot.    Lunch,dinner and cot are 30.    80 dollars or even 60 on weekdays.    This would be awesome for spring break kids/families.   Normally Gore would be open this week and/or next when spring break occurs.  


 

Free video (Go Pro or similar set up) to clients all over the hill.    Especially families.    Give them a link or code on the hill with a business card.    Families love this..period.  Big resorts out west are starting this and it is taking off.  


Step 2--  Have some of your part-time L2 or L3 instructors give "tip of the day" based on the video.   If they bring their video card back to ski school they get a 50% discount off a group lesson.   30% off a privite.  

The better they ski, the easier it will be to ski, the more fun it will be...the more they will be back.     Simple marketing.    

I:)

You have plenty of good ideas.  I'm personally not too keen on the boarding house thing for kids though.  Orda does not have any liscenced lodging facilities and its a state run operation so the red tape and construction costs alone to pull this off are way too much.  You can't just throw some cots in the lodge.  It might be good for a 3rd party hostel type lodge to start up around Gore or Whiteface and provide something along these lines.

Love the ideas - keep em coming but the true gist of the thread was to recognise outstanding ideas already being done in the industry and share them.

Baldy Pass, on a good snow year the best deal in Skiing.

$89 for a "virtual" pass, 289 for a regular:

http://www.shopbaldy.com/zIndex.lasso

-Adult version of "mtn adventure". Newbie adult enrolls in a 4wk (every Saturday) half day program with the same instructor.

How effective is a 90 minute group lesson in hooking people into the sport? And for first timers, the cost of a private lesson every week is overwhelming.

SIAWOL wrote

-Adult version of "mtn adventure". Newbie adult enrolls in a 4wk (every Saturday) half day program with the same instructor.

How effective is a 90 minute group lesson in hooking people into the sport? And for first timers, the cost of a private lesson every week is overwhelming.

Funny that you bring this up.  I worked with Aleks to create a new program next season for parents of the Cloudsplitter Club at Whiteface that will be a Saturday morning adult version of CC / Mt Adventure.  It will be focus on the fun social aspect of sliding on snow that can make adults feel like kids again.  The instructional aspect will be lighter than a typical group lesson with a focus on fun mileage.  Just like Cloudsplitter and Mt Adventure with the kids, the big benefit will come from skiing with the same instructor for a season.

We had heard a lot of feedback from Cloudsplitter parents that their kids were getting to be  better skiers than they were so they will help the parents stay ahead.  The other advantage will be the ability to skip to the front of the lift lines with their coach.  There will be a season long group focus developed by the groups themselves.  Just like CC the daily focus will be on what the best and most fun skiing is that day for the group including bumps, cruising, carving, trees, slides?, and maybe even some gates if Nastar makes a return as the rumor is.  The group can decide what to focus on and the coach will help make it happen.

For the 1st season it will be available just for Cloudsplitter Club parents, alumni parents of Cloudsplitter, and parents of season pass play and ski children.  We wanted to start it smaller the first year.  I hope to expand it to Nysef parents and possible other adults down the road.  Its a bargin at $179.  Look for it on your season pass application.

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Whiteface runs a program with local town's youth commisions where the 3rd graders or older get to ski on sundays and a lesson on sunday afternoon with the same instructor each week.  Its very reasonalbly priced and I have heard that some of the town subsidize it so its even less expensive for local kids.  This is very close to the concept that 70's mentions.

The best season pass is Monarch Mountain, Colorado. You get free skiing at Monarch, Loveland, Durango, Arizona Snowbowl, Grand Targhee, Wyoming, Revelstoke, BC, and a ton of other mountains all over the place (including 5 in Europe).  Plus you get Half Price at Alta.  And the price is $329.

Yeah, that's pretty good.

Many years ago a hostel existed in Upper Jay, the High Peaks Base Camp.  Dormitory lodging, shared bathroom, breakfast included, ~ $25/night.  Six miles from WF, how could you go wrong?  I stayed there even though I'm a habitue of Mount van Hoevenberg.  But they went out of business about 10-12 years ago.  I think a hostel type operation is difficult to keep going.

For things to be successful both the business owner and the customer must mutually benefit.  Too cheap pricing is not innovative its just bad business if you can't stay in business.

Adult Dev....Ski Liberty in Gettysburg Pa has been running this program for years.   Adults and instructors alike love it.     The current groups we have:  

1) All women (2 groups)
2) Co-Ed  (2 groups)
3) Black Skiers (their naming, Africian American, to be politically correct)  (2 groups)
4) Race--this was held on Thurs nights, for adult "non-racers" who wanted the thrill of racing that their kids get.  



These are 7 hour day lessons.  In the past they were 6 weeks.  Now they are 4 weeks.   They are always full, as noted they are more relaxed than normal lessons.  Some folks are year to year and would never think of leaving the group.    They pay to ski with friends...