Internet Tough Guys

LingerLonger is here to fight, he is condescending and arrogant. He seeks negative attention and he gets it. That said, guys like him increase traffic in just about any forum they are a part of. Members check in to join the battle or just to be entertained by it.

What do you think? Are internet tough guys a plus or a minus to forums?

Personally I use to like the battles, but now I’m mostly bored with them.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

LingerLonger is here to fight, he is condescending and arrogant. He seeks negative attention and he gets it. That said, guys like him increase traffic in just about any forum they are a part of. Members check in to join the battle or just to be entertained by it.

What do you think? Are internet tough guys a plus or a minus to forums?

Personally I use to like the battles, but now I’m mostly bored with them.

For the most part I find them entertaining, sort of “cyber people watching” if you will. That’s just me. I sit in front of a computer for 12 hrs a day and my biz is especially slow in the winter so I have time to kill. But other than that I really could care less.

So what draws you now?  The constant barrage of uninspired, obvious commentary that's all been said a thousand times before, a thousand different ways?  The cookie-cutter trip reports that all just melt into a huge, boring pile of cyber crap?  The poorly produced videos of mediocre skiers you don't know set to music you can't stand?   The phony camaraderie that is fabricated among people that, if they were to actually meet, may very well not even like each other?

lingerlonger wrote

So what draws you now?  The constant barrage of uninspired, obvious commentary that's all been said a thousand times before, a thousand different ways?  The cookie-cutter trip reports that all just melt into a huge, boring pile of cyber crap?  The poorly produced videos of mediocre skiers you don't know set to music you can't stand?   The phony camaraderie that is fabricated among people that, if they were to actually meet, may very well not even like each other?

Good questions all, I need to think about it because I really don't have a ready answer. Anyway, I posted this thread looking for an answer to the question I asked.

I read them for entertainment and sometimes add my sarcasm.  I think LL is just crying for attention and don't agree with most of what he posts.  There are times I just want to post one word replies but I won't because it would just bring me to his level and Harv probably wouldn't appreciate the off color remarks on his site. Would I like to ski with him?  I doubt it, but I do enjoy skiing with some of the folks on this blog...whether their heels are free or fixed or even on one plank.  The best skiers do all three!
I use the site to read TRs from places I have never been and may want to try...Like McCauley...and to pass the time until I am out there doing it...it's all just words anyway, the most fun is in the actions, being outside, and enjoying the day.

lingerlonger wrote

So what draws you now?  The constant barrage of uninspired, obvious commentary that's all been said a thousand times before, a thousand different ways?  The cookie-cutter trip reports that all just melt into a huge, boring pile of cyber crap?  The poorly produced videos of mediocre skiers you don't know set to music you can't stand?   The phony camaraderie that is fabricated among people that, if they were to actually meet, may very well not even like each other?

Having resisted the urge to respond to any of your previous posts, I think that this one warrants a response, not for your consumption, but rather for everyone else.

I think the better question is: "So what draws LingerLonger now?". His or her (I don't recall whether any of LingerLonger's previous posts provide any indication of gender) obvious disdain for the majority of the posts presented on this forum would indicate that he/she has no actual interest in what anyone says here. He/she is clearly here to entertain him/her self by provoking others. Based on numerous publications on the subject, it would seem quite clear that he/she fits the definition of an "Internet Troll".

As for the rest of LingerLonger's comments above, when you read most of the posts on this forum, it becomes obvious that a large percentage of the "regular contributors" to this forum have in fact met, get together on a somewhat regular basis, perhaps only to ski ... perhaps in other settings as well, and are IN FACT, interested in the comments, thoughts and suggestions of others. Whether or not we agree, disagree or are uninterested in a particular post, we at least maintain a level of mutual respect and decency towards each other.

I think the best advice for the rest of us on this forum is to take the advice of many psychologists who have published articles on the subject of internet trolls ... DFTT (Don't Feed The Trolls).

Go ahead ... have at me ... I'm all yours.

CONTENTS DELETED

70s Gore Kid wrote

Folks, its a forum.  As long as there are no personal attacks or threats, it's all in good fun.  And it sure makes me want to check in, to see what's being debated today.  

And you bet, it increases views or "hits."  Look at the headlines on popular news sites, or the Drudge Report.  If it's scandalous, it gets page views.  Same with HR.  I don't want to hang out with LingerLonger, but I sure enjoy reading him!

If it's all regulated happy talk about how good the skiing is this week, I am bored.  Yes, the Telefest last weekend was interesting, but I am 14 hours from Gore and Hickory, so I can't participate in any of that.

I enjoy pointed discussion over the area where I grew up but alas, no longer live near.  I enjoy the Killington forum simply because of one regular guy on it called Bubba.  He is so funny, it makes the forum worth reading, even though I have no interest in Killington.

Last year, Snowballs was the LingerLonger of HR's forum, taunting others and especially Gore management.  I ate it up. I think some things are better this year at Gore because of Snowball's critique of snowmaking and lift management. This year, Snowballs has mellowed, and is no longer as fun.  Sorry, Snowballs, just telling the truth.

As long as no one is hurt or threatened, I think HR readers will linger longer if there are comments by LingerLonger. Just keep it clean, Linger.

On the one hand, I definitely agree with your points, and I'm certainly not an advocate of quelling free speech, however, there is a down side to what can happen when internet trolling "goes too far". The SkiADK forum is a PERFECT example of this ... several years ago, Whiteface used to have a link to the SkiADK forum on its web-site. The forum was a great resource for information about the mountain, and was frequently used by people who were coming to Whiteface and/or Lake Placid for the first time.

When the content on the forum "went too far" for Whiteface management, they pulled the plug on the link. Subsequently, the forum moderator, who had an association with Whiteface, withdrew from the forum and it has all but died. In my opinion, it was really unfortunate that this happened. Speaking for myself, when I first started skiing at Whiteface, there was a post on the forum announcing a new season long kids program that I hadn't heard about. I subsequently enrolled my daughter, and several years later, my son, and it has been great for our family.

70s Gore Kid wrote

Last year, Snowballs was the LingerLonger of HR's forum, taunting others and especially Gore management.  I ate it up. I think some things are better this year at Gore because of Snowball's critique of snowmaking and lift management. This year, Snowballs has mellowed, and is no longer as fun.  Sorry, Snowballs, just telling the truth.

EXCEPT...

My comments were warranted and correct. Go back even further than last year in SkiADK, and you'll see things I wrote, that many others disagreed with, have now come true.

My comments you refer to, were directed at the Gore's policies and performance. Those are fair game especially if the comments I made were correct, which they were. I didn't attack people personally unless they served first. I then returned volley.

That's a huge difference from what is occurring here now.

Conflict just for conflict's sake is immature and harmful, to this forum and to those who must bear it's brunt.

Speaking out against Gore short comings last year and Pratt's lame excuses was mature and helpful, as you noted.

Spanking the occasional rude bully is not only proper and but necessary....Not refering to you KId.

OK...I thought it over.

lingerlonger wrote

So what draws you now?  The constant barrage of uninspired, obvious commentary that's all been said a thousand times before, a thousand different ways?  

No, on alot of forums it is mostly rehash. I especially dislike threads like "How many times will you ski in Feb.", and crap like that.

lingerlonger wrote

The cookie-cutter trip reports that all just melt into a huge, boring pile of cyber crap?  

Never read them unless they're about Whiteface. I like to read about the experience others have had at my favorite place, especially those going for the first time.

lingerlonger wrote

  The poorly produced videos of mediocre skiers you don't know set to music you can't stand?  

They actually give me motion sickness, so I don't watch them.

lingerlonger wrote

 The phony camaraderie that is fabricated among people that, if they were to actually meet, may very well not even like each other?

I actually have made friends and friendly acquaintances as a result of ski forums, especially the old RSN forum, SKIADK and to a lesser extent Alpine Zone. Some of these people have introduced me to their friends, so yeah; I know a lot of people at WF that I ski and après with that I probably never would have met without the forums.

I guess the main reason I come to this forum, exclusively for now, is because when I’m not skiing I like to talk about it, especially when it comes to Whiteface.

Linger, you make valid points and for the most part they are thought out and well written. The problem I have with you is you’re a mean prick to people. I don’t care for mean people in real life and I feel the same way about them in forums. Good natured ribbing is all well and good, I do it all the time with friends, but you don’t roll like that, you want to belittle people.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

The problem I have with you is you’re a mean prick to people. *  *   *   you want to belittle people.

Who, specifically, have I been "mean" to or belittled?

lingerlonger wrote

Who, specifically, have I been "mean" to or belittled?

Here are some things you posted. I don't feel confortable naming those you where addressing because they might not want to be drawn into this.

"Free your heel, free your mind."  Did you really just say that?  That's so 1995.

What?  Do you know anything about avalanche science?  I didn't think so.  Do your buddies a favor and just keep your mouth shut next time.
 
Are just trying to protect this guy or are you really this dense?

Did he actually state that? I guess you somehow know. Please tell us oh swami

Listen, you're either stupid or trying to pick a fight; either way you're a waste of time.

Whatever.  I can't do this "Dance of the Imbeciles" with you right now.

Hey ********, I didn't start that as a thread - Harvey did.  He took a comment I  made on another thread and turned it into its own thread. Keep your mouth shut.

 I don't give a shit about the ramblings of some anonymous, internet blowhard.

Actually, you don't know know shit.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

lingerlonger wrote

Who, specifically, have I been "mean" to or belittled?

Here are some things you posted. I don't feel confortable naming those you where addressing because they might not want to be drawn into this.

"Free your heel, free your mind."  Did you really just say that?  That's so 1995.

That's "mean" and "belittling"?  Wow.

What?  Do you know anything about avalanche science?  I didn't think so.  Do your buddies a favor and just keep your mouth shut next time.

If the truth is "mean" then I'm guilty.  That little punk isn't too smart.
 
Are just trying to protect this guy or are you really this dense?

That was in the midst of a back and forth.  The guy was obviously gunning for me.  You bet I'll respond.


Did he actually state that? I guess you somehow know. Please tell us oh swami

I didn't say that; somebody said it to me.  Guess I'm not the only "meanie".  Better go get 'em.


Listen, you're either stupid or trying to pick a fight; either way you're a waste of time.

Again, the guy was coming for me.  I reserve the right to defend myself and I won't apologize for the fact that I'm better at it than most.

Whatever.  I can't do this "Dance of the Imbeciles" with you right now.

See above.

Hey ********, I didn't start that as a thread - Harvey did.  He took a comment I  made on another thread and turned it into its own thread. Keep your mouth shut.

The guy went on an entire rant based upon an assumption about me and my actions that simply wasn't true.  Why aren't you calling him out for all the "mean" things he unfairly called me in his tirade?


 I don't give a shit about the ramblings of some anonymous, internet blowhard.
I don't.  Do you.

Actually, you don't know know shit.

Said in response to some turd who was nit-picking my prompt and forthright response to his question about conditions on a slide I'd been on recently.  Again, the guy was making all kinds of erroneous assumptions about me and my experience just because it fit into some false narrative he wanted to create about me.

All your examples are out of context and are just quotes from the back and forth of an ongoing debate/squabble/argument.  Got any examples where I just attacked someone out of the blue?

The first thing the classroom bully tells the teacher is, it was the victims fault.

You and I both know what you’re doing here and so does everyone else. You’re going to show us all how much you know, how you’re opinion matters more than ours and if anyone dares to disagree with you you’re going to kick there ass with the written word.

You probably do know a lot about skiing and are probably intelligent, I just don’t like the way you treat people here.  I’m now bored with this, tired of gathering evidence, retorts, etc. If you care to take it the last word is yours.

Woman dies in skiing accident at Windham----thread started 5 days ago w/ 61 views

Internet Tough Guys---thread started 4 hrs ago w/ 120 views

Guess maybe they are good!!??

Nah, the last word's yours.  See ya.

dont worry about hurting my feelings i have none (been picked on for tele skiin or not tele skiin for too long),to answer the question it prolly a minus all i really want is to keep up on conditions dont need to waste my time with all the negative waves

Last Word!

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

What do you think? Are internet tough guys a plus or a minus to forums?

I think the threads  - "Why do people Telemark?" and "Who reads TRs anyway?" were solid ideas for conversation.  There was a lot of good stuff posted in those threads.  The good stuff was also mixed in with some crankiness and BS.  

It's all about the approach. Something like this could get the same conversation going:

an imaginary guy wrote

 I never understood why skiers telemark - it seems like an inefficient technique. To those of you who do telemark - why do you like it?

Follow-up question, why do are so many inexperienced skiers taking up the sport?  You would think that only an accomplished skier would try free-heeled skiing, but that's clearly not the case.  The telemark skiers I've seen don't face the fall line, they drag their uphill pole, they skid their turns because they don't know how to use their edges.  From what I've seen there are some that know how to ski, but they're the exception.

Words removed or replaced include: inferior, ridiculous, arcane, and terrible.

All forums have conflict at one time or another. (You should check out the snowmobiling forums!) The difference I see between forums is that some are BASED on conflict and in others it's more incidental. To me the original post in this thread has a really good idea in it, but that idea seems ancillary to an overriding objective - creating conflict.

Are internet tough guys a plus or a minus? I'm undecided. From what I am hearing from y'all backchannel - I'm in the minority.

I agree with you completely. The topics themselves are definitely interesting ones worth discussing, the problem in this case, was that the original posts, and many of the follow-ups, were clearly intended to be inflammatory, rather than being presented for the purpose of legitimate discussion. Fortunately, there were plenty of responses where people ignored the attacks, and posted grown up messages.

Maybe I'm just too much of an old fart to get it, but I just don't understand the point of internet flame wars.