Is American patriotism out of hand?

Peee tex you are one edgy dude , over the edge that is . You must have had an epiphany huh,   continually spouting alt right bullshit with the best of em ...laffable actually .  You lecture everyone  here as if you are the font of all wisdom .

Dude take a chill pill ., this shit is getting to ya . I'm worried about ya 🤓

My opinion on extreme nationalism has nothing to do with political party affiliation but apparently it does to most of you.

Man I'm so sick of the group think mentality and political division. Why the F can't I have an opinion that has nothing to do with party allegiance? Way to dumb down every conversation with this liberal vs. conservative hate crap.

Coach Z wrote

America is the greatest country on earth and without it this world would be living under several oppressive regimes that we defeated.  It's in vogue with liberals to bash and talk down our great country while an globalist liberal agenda tries to take the world into a darker place.  Liberal Poppy Cock that you are even bringing this shit up.

Bullshit. You watch too much television that feeds your bias, that is obvious.

What is the criteria for greatness?

Harvey wrote

What is the criteria for greatness?

Easy. One metric is to gauge it against others.

raisingarizona wrote

My opinion on extreme nationalism has nothing to do with political party affiliation but apparently it does to most of you.

Man I'm so sick of the group think mentality and political division. Why the F can't I have an opinion that has nothing to do with party allegiance? Way to dumb down every conversation with this liberal vs. conservative hate crap.

Stop it. By separating yourself from the Republican/Democrat divide, you're only putting yourself into a third group: people who believe both parties are bullshit. This group has its own rules and dumb ideas, too (from "the truth is somewhere in the middle" to outright nihilism). I haven't read the article yet, but you have to start recognizing that "I hate liberal and conservative bullshit" is the same as "I hate conservative bullshit" or "I hate liberal bullshit".

Also, for the record, patriotism is generally considered Conservative bullshit, as evidenced by Coach just loving a dumb, nationalistic speech by someone he claims to hate.

I don't like Trump but I am a patriot and thus now want him to succeed becuase that means the country and its people succeeded.  There is no way you can root against the country and call yourself a patriot.

Sooooooo.....then....Tea Party folks, Birthers, Dittoheads, hell pretty much the whole House Republican establishment of the last 8 years? Are those people patriots?

mattchuck2 wrote

raisingarizona wrote

My opinion on extreme nationalism has nothing to do with political party affiliation but apparently it does to most of you.

Man I'm so sick of the group think mentality and political division. Why the F can't I have an opinion that has nothing to do with party allegiance? Way to dumb down every conversation with this liberal vs. conservative hate crap.

Stop it. By separating yourself from the Republican/Democrat divide, you're only putting yourself into a third group: people who believe both parties are bullshit. This group has its own rules and dumb ideas, too (from "the truth is somewhere in the middle" to outright nihilism). I haven't read the article yet, but you have to start recognizing that "I hate liberal and conservative bullshit" is the same as "I hate conservative bullshit" or "I hate liberal bullshit".

Also, for the record, patriotism is generally considered Conservative bullshit, as evidenced by Coach just loving a dumb, nationalistic speech by someone he claims to hate.

Nope. This is incorrect imho. Being yourself, forming your own opinions, and NOT joining in on a dangerous group-think mentality is everything that you don't mention here. Critical thinking is lacking among the strong party allegiance crowd. Sorry dude, but this post is complete shit.

Definition of patriot

    :  one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests



-I'll add "without critical thinking" it's countries powers and their motivations. Hence the Patriot Act. Yeah, that's being a patriaidiot.

raisingarizona wrote

Nope. This is incorrect imho. Being yourself, forming your own opinions, and NOT joining in on a dangerous group-think mentality is everything that you don't mention here. Critical thinking is lacking among the strong party allegiance crowd. Sorry dude, but this post is complete shit.

You're part of group-think mentality too. There are lots of people like you, who think that Democrats and Republicans are the same, or that they're too partisan, or that neither can address the real problems with the country. You're part of that group of people and you're bound by their rules. One of the rules is "complain about partisanship". You're doing exactly what you decry. You're being as divisive as a hardcore Republican or Democrat. You're just as much a partisan as me or Coach, but your "party" is "not Democrat or Republican".

If you were a pure Critical thinker, you would take a side once in a while (because, presumably, one party is right on a particular issue, and one is wrong), but you never seem to do that. Instead, you always come in with "both parties are wrong and stop the partisanship". Again, that's not critical thinking. That's cheerleading for the "no labels" team.

mattchuck2 wrote

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If you were a pure Critical thinker, you would take a side once in a while (because, presumably, one party is right on a particular issue, and one is wrong),

When did they rename "common sense"  critical thinking
 you're spot on MC imo

Finally read the article in the OP.

Agree wholeheartedly with it. Patriotism the way it is practiced in this country is over the line. Okay, fine, play the national anthem before a baseball game. But do I have to hear "God Bless America" at the 7th inning stretch, too?

And all this talk about how America is the "greatest country in the world" is really getting in the way of us improving things. People like to post that video from the HBO series "The Newsroom", and it makes good points. Other countries have discovered better ways to deal with health care, education, environment, etc., but since people in this country are brainwashed into thinking that 'Merica is the BEST, it limits our ability to emulate what works in other countries and change things for the better.

Instead of looking at France's 6 weeks of paid vacation and saying "that sounds nice", this new version of "Patriotism" has us saying "The French are lazy, unlike the industrious citizens of greatest country in the world. U-S-A! U-S-A!"

It's almost as if it's not even patriotism anymore but increasing fealty to big businesses that happen to be based in America (but good luck getting any taxes out of those businesses).

mattchuck2 wrote

raisingarizona wrote

Nope. This is incorrect imho. Being yourself, forming your own opinions, and NOT joining in on a dangerous group-think mentality is everything that you don't mention here. Critical thinking is lacking among the strong party allegiance crowd. Sorry dude, but this post is complete shit.

You're part of group-think mentality too. There are lots of people like you, who think that Democrats and Republicans are the same, or that they're too partisan, or that neither can address the real problems with the country. You're part of that group of people and you're bound by their rules. One of the rules is "complain about partisanship". You're doing exactly what you decry. You're being as divisive as a hardcore Republican or Democrat. You're just as much a partisan as me or Coach, but your "party" is "not Democrat or Republican".

If you were a pure Critical thinker, you would take a side once in a while (because, presumably, one party is right on a particular issue, and one is wrong), but you never seem to do that. Instead, you always come in with "both parties are wrong and stop the partisanship". Again, that's not critical thinking. That's cheerleading for the "no labels" team.

You present only two alternatives to your argument here "presumably, one party is right on a particular issue, and one is wrong", there are at least two others: Both sides are wrong and Both sides are right. RA seems to be of the belief that for the most parts there is little difference between the two sides as they are today and they are both wrong. I tend to agree. You yourself stated that the choices presented to us during the election were both bad (one being better than the other but none the less, both bad). Are you part of this "Group Think" mentality as well?

mattchuck2 wrote

And all this talk about how America is the "greatest country in the world" is really getting in the way of us improving things. People like to post that video from the HBO series "The Newsroom", and it makes good points. Other countries have discovered better ways to deal with health care, education, environment, etc., but since people in this country are brainwashed into thinking that 'Merica is the BEST, it limits our ability to emulate what works in other countries and change things for the better.

Maybe your the one that's brainwashed for just a few short months ago you were saying:

mattchuck2 wrote

Is it possible that, as I've been saying all along, Life is Good? Is it possible that people, driven by a media that is hungry to induce panic (because it's good for ratings), have just convinced themselves that times are terrible, even though we're living in the best time to live ever? Seriously, we live better than Kings and Queens of the 16th-20th centuries. We have the entire world's information at our fingertips. We have the best beer, best wine, and best food that have ever existed. We have the best skis, bikes, and other toys that have ever existed.

As many of us said at the time - and now you seem to be saying, how can we ever fix the problems the country faces if we can't admit that the problems exist. You seemed to be unable  to admit they existed with an Obama presidency - now they seem very apparent to you.

The two parties are mostly diametrically opposed to each other. Can you give an example of an issue in which they are both wrong or both right?

(Again, though, if you consistently  say "both parties are wrong", that just makes you a partisan for the "none of the above" party)

I still think we live in the best time to be alive in the history of the world. There is opportunity, cheap goods, and unlimited potential.

That doesn't mean some people aren't getting left behind, that this lottery capitalist system is working for everybody, and that there's nothing we can do to improve. But people like you and Coach keep shooting down ideas that would make life better and easier for people because you insist on voting for the party of millionaire tax cuts.

And one of my arguments has always been that some states (NY, MA, CA) rank up there with the best countries in the world on healthcare, income, etc. while other states (MS, AL, LA) rank very poorly.

Things are going great for some (everybody on this board) and poorly for others*. But Trump lying to Coach and telling him that crime and terrorism are YUGE problems is not helping matters. Convincing poor people to vote for the GOP is not helping matters. You keep voting for the party that tells struggling people to pull harder on their bootstraps. I keep voting for the party that wants to help them with healthcare, childcare, and college education, paid for by taxing the winners of the capitalist lottery.

*I'm being nice and giving your "people are struggling and that's why Trump won" argument a lot of play with this sentence, even though the facts don't really bear it out:



The alternative would be to admit that racism or sexism was at play, and God forbid anyone ever suggest that.

mattchuck2 wrote

Can you give an example of an issue in which they are both wrong or both right?

Iraq

PeeTex wrote

mattchuck2 wrote

Can you give an example of an issue in which they are both wrong or both right?

Iraq

A majority of Democrats in the House voted against it.

And dupes like Clinton and Schumer thought that they were just voting to give Bush leverage, when they were actually voting to start the war machines. At least Bernie and Obama were on the right side (and Ron Paul and Lincoln Chaffee, to their credit).

mattchuck2 wrote

PeeTex wrote

mattchuck2 wrote

Can you give an example of an issue in which they are both wrong or both right?

Iraq

A majority of Democrats in the House voted against it.

And dupes like Clinton and Schumer thought that they were just voting to give Bush leverage, when they were actually voting to start the war machines. At least Bernie and Obama were on the right side (and Ron Paul and Lincoln Chaffee, to their credit).

And a majority of Democrats in the Senate voted for it. You wanted an issue that both parties agreed on - I gave you one. Admit you are wrong yet again. In fact the party leadership as we have it today all voted for it:
Schumer, Biden, Reid, Leiberman, Feinstein, etc.