Lifespan of High Speed Lifts

This is an offshoot from the Gore Conditions Thread.

Snowballs wrote

Yea really, there hasn't even been much talk about it on here. Normally, that would create quite a buzz.

Good thing the new AE II lift is there. If the old one was still there and it also broke down it would be a major bitch fest.

Maybe North Korea is behind it all ?

I hope that the lifespan on both gondolas last as long as they planned.  Shelf life for any detach is about 25 years.  The gondolas at the ORDA mountains are only 15 years old.  So theoretically, they have still got 10 years of life left in them before a major modification or replacement is needed.  

Here are some examples of other older detachable lifts that have been replaced or extensively modified, how old they were when it happened, and what was done to the lift.

Hunter replaced their HSQ when it was 22 years old and then extensively rebuilt it to run on the West Side.  

The former AE1 was 29 years old when removed and it was completely retired and not reinstalled anywhere although it may be broken up for parts.  

Stratton's Gondola just got an extensive rehab including a new drive motor, new cabins, and a new haul rope.  It was 25 years old when the project started.

The old Stowe Fourrunner Quad was retired in 2011 and it was 24 years old.  It was not reinstalled as a full lift anywhere, It was broken up for parts with the towers going somewhere in Connecticut.

The Stowe Gondola was refurbished for this season which meant repainting the cabins, redoing their interiors, getting a new haul rope and drive motor.  After last year when the project started, it was 22 years old.

The Mount Snow Grand Summit Express was 23 years old in 2011 when it was relegated to being the backup lift.  It also got an extensive modification that year including new chairs and a rebuilt base terminal.  

The Northstar Express at Okemo was removed last spring and was 21 years old.  It received a major rehab and was reinstalled this year at Sunapee.  

See what I mean?  These ages average out to be about 25 years old.

This means that there are some lifts that are coming up on that age quick and will need to be refurbished or replaced.  Here are the examples of some of them.

The Windham HSQ is going to be 21 years old after this season.

The Skyeship Gondola at Killington will be 20 years old after this season.

Both HSQ's at Pico and the Snowshed and Superstar Express at Killington will be 27 years old after this season.  However, both were extensively modified in 1996, so they may be around a bit longer.

The Solitude Express at Okemo will be 20 years old after this season.

There are probably more lifts that I am missing, but I think I have a good list.

Within the next 5 years, I am pretty sure there some of these lifts won't be there anymore, some will be relegated to the backup lift, and others extensively rebuilt/rehabbed.

IIRC, Stowe's Forerunner was the first high speed quad in the east, or at least one of the first. Which means that your hypothetical liftspan of 25 years almost represents the oldest a high speed quad could possibly be. I think you are reading too much into augmentations and replacements of lifts built of that vintage. I suspect newer builds after the first models will probably age better than some of the older models.

That said... Sugarbush's North Ridge is 25 years old now and I haven't heard of any plans to replace it. It is of the same style as the old Forerunner, as I recall.

How about the 1988 installed gondola at Loon Mountain, more than 25 years ago, no planned replacement to the best of my knowledge. Loon's original 1966 gondola still operates today at a different mountain, though it was refurbished in 2002. Wildcat's gondo lasted 40 years before it was replaced (still miss that one!). Cannon's current tram is almost 35, its original tram lasted a bit over 40 years. Jay's tram is almost 50 years old (though with newer cabins).

I suspect high speed lifts will continue to age much past 25 years of age with proper maintenance and lack of funds for replacements, or other infrastructure needs taking priority. Also, it seems you are throwing in both replacements and refurbishments and relocations and your citation of 25 years is strictly for the original location without any modification. Your argument doesn't really fit your premise, in that sense. If a lift still runs, in a different location or with modifications or refurbishments, the lift is still solid despite its age.

Yes, 25 years is the life that a typical high speed lift can go in original location without being refurbished extensively or replaced.  I can only reference lifts of that vintage because those are the ones getting to be that age.  The North Ridge Express at Sugarbush was built in 1990 as the Green Mountain Express.  It is 4 years younger than the original Fourrunner at Stowe and is a Poma HSQ while Fourrunner was a Doppelmayr HSQ.  According to Chairlift.org, it was refurbished in 2002 by Poma so it was about 12 years old when that happened.  Should be running for a while then.

There was a Poma HSQ in Canada that was severely damaged by lightning this past summer.  It was fixable, but the lift was built in 1995 and it would have been 19 years old this year.  There was an article saying that the lift would be replaced and not fixed because it was designed to last 25 years and was already 19 years old.  It was better to scrap the lift and get the new design than to fix the old one with the older design that would be past its designed life span in under 10 years.  Some parts that weren't damaged were reused like the towers, sheaves, and terminal support structures.  However, the terminals, grips and chairs were fully replaced.

The TGV quad at Tremblant was damaged by fire this past fall as well.  It was fixed up quickly so that it could run, but it is going to be overhauled in summer of 2015 and that was already scheduled.

The reason that detachable lifts have a shorter lifespan that they are designed for than fixed grips is because of part compatibility issues.  Take the Gore Adirondack Express for example.  That was an outdated design that was no longer supported.  The biggest problem were the grips I would imagine.  To replace the grips, the terminal rails would have to be completely redesigned.  Then the sheaves on the towers would need to be replaced because on a detachable lift, sheaves are only compatible with certain grips and other grips cannot be used on them.  After doing all this to the original ADK Express, they would have had a weird lift design where the original chairs were used with new grips, but the terminals were extensively modified and the sheaves replaced.  After doing all that, I would think that anyone in the lift business would say that it was better to buy new and replace the whole lift, which Gore did.

With your interst in lifts and love of skiing you should get an eng degree and try for a job with Dopplemeyer.  

Better take German in high school.

Seems like that could be your dream career.

I take French, so getting a job with Poma is more likely since they are based in France.