MTB Hardtail vs Full Suspension

Harvey wrote

But he told me the front suspension has to have the seals replaced every 15-20 hours.

HORSE HOCKEY!!!

Telemark Dave wrote

Harvey wrote

But he told me the front suspension has to have the seals replaced every 15-20 hours.

HORSE HOCKEY!!!

Yeah, this is why I hate most retailers (#notallretailers). They say things that are blatantly wrong and can be disproved with a couple of minutes of Internet searching. They pray on people too lazy or too busy to do research for themselves. And then they charge you a huge markup for their "expertise".

If you really want to pay retail prices, at least go to a solid shop like Inside Edge in Queensbury on your way up to North River or LeepOff in Keene Valley if you're up in the LP area.

In this case I'm not super motivated to use a retailer.  If I leave the bike in the mountains it won't get much use (maybe 10-15 days a year?) so I'm hoping I won't need to much service. I guess If I do use a retailer Inside Edge probably makes sense. I'd probably see how cheap it was online and if the dealer was reasonably close on price (within $100?) I might go with one.

I only went in to this place because it seemed like more fun than food shopping (the ladies were doing it) and I wanted to check out the fat bikes and super expensive stuff up close. Priciest bike I saw was $8000.  They had mostly Cannondale and Salsa.

I thought it was odd that a fast taking guy would tell me this if not true because it essentially pushes me towards a cheaper bike. He told me the lowest end suspensions (springs not fluid) are crappy but need little maintenance.

My Kona has a fluid filled front suspension and I've never done anything to it in a dozen years. Maybe it's shot, I don't know. Seems to work ok to me.

 

HORSE HOCKEY!!!


Ahh Col Potter....

I'm looking for a hardtail in the 600 beans range...

JasonWx wrote

Ahh Col Potter....

MULE FRITTERS!!

my 2 cent.  That KONA that you have is as good as any 1000 dollar bike you are going to get,  unless you know what you are looking for and grab a decent used bike.  

Unless I was buying a bike to ride rail trails I would not even think about a hard tale.  It just does not make sense.  You can get a bike that the back suspension locks out and you have the same thing.  

Ride what you have until you can plunk down 4k on a decent full suspension.  

tjf1967 wrote

my 2 cent.  That KONA that you have is as good as any 1000 dollar bike you are going to get,  unless you know what you are looking for and grab a decent used bike.  

My original thought was that I want a bike in both places.  I do primarily road (and dirt road) riding at home and wanted to keep my Kona for that.  I was looking for something more modern (bigger wheels) for the trail riding I want to do on our land in the Adk.

But your post has me thinking maybe I will do that. My wife also has a Kona that she never rides. Maybe I'll swipe that and use it. Then I could have a bike in both places. Both need work, we'll see what that comes to.

mattchuck2 wrote

Telemark Dave wrote

Harvey wrote

But he told me the front suspension has to have the seals replaced every 15-20 hours.

HORSE HOCKEY!!!

Yeah, this is why I hate most retailers (#notallretailers). They say things that are blatantly wrong and can be disproved with a couple of minutes of Internet searching. They pray on people too lazy or too busy to do research for themselves. And then they charge you a huge markup for their "expertise".

If you really want to pay retail prices, at least go to a solid shop like Inside Edge in Queensbury on your way up to North River or LeepOff in Keene Valley if you're up in the LP area.

Word.  Of course the irony of my Sherman Potter expletive is that it's not unusual for me to have to do some sort of maintenance on my bikes after every ride.   This is why I've spent the better part of the last 10 years riding rigid single speeds - on dirt and road.  Less to maintain and break.   Though I seem to be able to to eff up those too.  Just costs less to fix.  

So Harv, just remember... Shit happens, and, you've got to pay to play.  

So I went into the new store in our town for the first time.  I took the Kona in and asked the guy to look it over and give me a price to get it back in shape. I rode it over, seems like it needs a lot of stuff, i guess we'll see.

He's got Giant and Specialized. He showed me a Giant for $1000. It looked pretty sweet to me. I looked one level down, same frame cheaper derailleurs etc for 700.  I think it was the "Talon."  Not a super expensive bike but still seems a lot better than what I've got.

He convinced me that 27.5 was more of an all around compromise for a hacker like me.

Since I rode my bike over, I was walking back and he offered to let ride it home. Instead I'm coming back tomorrow and he's going to take me out on some trails nearby. That seem like pretty cool service.

Opinions on the Talon or 27.5 wheels?

I would still wait, and buy a full suspension.  It'll give you more versatility.  I ride a mixed bag.  I switched over 5 years ago from a Gary Fischer hardtail with a straight bar and barends (purchased in 96).  With my old hard-tail, I often suffered through some relentless beatings in the rock gardens of PA.  Since I switched, I've been completely sold on the comfort you get with a full suspension.

I got this in 2010 on closeout for $2200



There's a control on the bar that locks out both the front and rear suspension simultaneously.  Best feature in my opinion.  It rides pretty rigid, and climbs fairly well when it's locked out.  It floats effortlessly with six inches of travel when in downhill mode.  This bike has a lot of hours on it, and it has held up extremely well.

Harvey,

If you are looking at a Giant (great bikes BTW), you'll probably end up with a 27.5.  They make very few 29ers.  On the other hand, Poindexter and I are riding Specialized 29's.  We're both "hackers" and very happy with them.  

We've been riding single track down here on Long Island and haven't found the larger wheel size to be an issue for us novices.  We also do a fair amount of road biking, and the 29's are better suited for that.  For us the 29's seem to be the right choice.  See if your local guy has one for you to test ride before you decide on the 27.5.

In terms of bike for the money, we were given the advice to spend money on a  quality frame and suspension.  You can always upgrade the other components later.

What he was saying about 27.5 is that it is easier to make tight turns through technical terrain.  For rolling over logs and obstacles the bigger diameter rules.

Full suspensh for flowy trail riding... 10 - 15 days a year... I can't justify it.

Harv I wouldn't get too hung up on 29 v 27.5, I'd get whatever you get a better value with. I had to send my 29 er fork back to fox and got the same bike in 27.5 as a loaner. It definitely did some things better but not enough to make me trade out the inner . regarding seals keep em clean every ride and throw a few drops of tri flow on the stanchions and they'll last few seasons. Then throw on some blue enduros

man you are just looking to throw some money away.  It sounds like you have 1k to spend.  Go in the store with a little buzz tell him to show you a full suspension 29er with 150mm of travel and plunk your card down.  It will hurt for a month or two but the years of satisfaction you are going to get from the bike will be worth it.  Enough thinking more doing.  

tjf1967 wrote

   Go in the store with a little buzz tell him to show you a full suspension 29er with 150mm of travel and plunk your card down.  

I like your style bro

tjf1967 wrote

man you are just looking to throw some money away.  It sounds like you have 1k to spend.  Go in the store with a little buzz tell him to show you a full suspension 29er with 150mm of travel and plunk your card down.  It will hurt for a month or two but the years of satisfaction you are going to get from the bike will be worth it.  Enough thinking more doing.

That would definitely be a fun way to buy a bike but the little buzz wouldn't be much help when the sales person asks, "so Harv, why do you think you need a long-travel 29er? Doesn't really make much sense for the kind of riding you'll be doing most of the time."

tjf1967 wrote

Go in the store with a little buzz tell him to show you a full suspension 29er with 150mm of travel and plunk your card down.  

LOL I did that already, cept I bought a piece of adk. That why I want the bike and also why I can't afford the full suspench. The culprit was Knob Creek.


Truth: the guy did talk me down to a 27.5 from a 29. I think. Haven't done anything yet.

I wish they made a single front chainring on something less than 2 grand.

Huh where you been living. I can lock my shocks out.  Lt 29er is the perfect bike. Fast, plush. What is the downside?

A lot more bike for the cash in a hard tail versus full suspension.  If budget is important, and if the kind of riding that I'm guessing Harv anticipates (his own trail in North River, plus maybe the Ski Bowl trails) doesn't really require full suspension, a hard tail is probably the best bang for the buck.

I'm late to this thread and I only skipped through it all but I saw the pics of the Gooses and.........just don't.

I really like bikes, maybe more than skiing. It's why I moved to Arizona from Jackson. I'm not a gear head though and I don't really keep up with the latest and greatest, especially with the silliness that the industry is pulling now trying to create a new gimmick every year.

Some thoughts based on my experiences, 26 inch wheels are way better for cornering, 27.5 aren't that much different, it may become more of a standard but only time will tell. Right now it seems that it will. 29 inch wheels are awesome fo average riders. They roll really fast and make small to medium features ride much smaller. 29er wheels are fast overall, as in xc racer fast or like in a roadie sort of way. 29er wheels aren't sweet for cornering or jumping, they are just a little awkward. It's not impossible but far from ideal.

Full suspension bikes imo aren't worth your time or money until you get into the 2k at retail realm. Just like anything you have to invest a little to get something that works. For someone on a tight budget that isn't into dh riding or more aggressive trail riding I would just suggest going with a nice hard tail. Fix that Kona, those frames are tough and built to last. OR start shopping online for a used bike. 26 inch fs bikes are silly cheap now since the industry has the majority thinking they can't show up at the trail head on a 26 inch bike without feeling embarrassed.

Again, those <2000 dollar fs bikes are not worth it. And those Mongooses for under 2-3 hundred? Are useless. I wouldn't trust one for even a beer getter. Take it to the trail and you are going to end up hurt.