Market's gonna tank, how do i get in on contrafund

raisingarizona wrote

But bro.....I drive a Prius! Bahaha!

Your Prius over it's life cycle is worse than a gas powered car if you take into account what it took to manufacture it and what it will take to dispose of it. As an example, where do you think all the lithium, copper, plastics and rare earths required to make that thing came from?

Matt has it wrong as well but Scotty has it right (must be dumb luck on his part), if you want to lessen pollution - shrink the population. We use tremendous amounts of fossil fuels to grow our food, harvest our food, process our food, store our food & ship our food let alone all of the energy that is consumed by us going about our consumer driven way of life so we can buy our food and produce more offspring to keep this unsustainable cycle going year after year. Lefties love to complain about this shit, they want to put regulations on everybody but when it comes to making changes that effect them, they cry fowl just as Matt did.

Sincere question, and I should know the answer to it as I was trained as an economist:

Can the economy grow without a growing population?  

I am both hopeful and skeptical.  If it can't, then man is doomed from inception.

I do think that if the population was steady, less growth would be required for success.  If a plan was ever constructed to shrink the population, boy you would have to be careful.   Maybe some combo of efficiency and common sense could get it done.

snoloco wrote

While we can in urban and suburban areas take measures to make it easier to live without a car, or discourage driving when there are better and more sustainable ways to get around (think highway tolls, congestion pricing, and increased public transit options), many of which are already being done, there's no way that's going to work in a rural area such as where I go to school.

Things like this are the best way to reduce pollution from automobiles because the local population is already used to using public transportation at least occasionally, and will chose to drive less if there are other options available to them.

The best way to reduce pollution is to change how the vehicle is powered.  In urban settings, it doesn't change people's habits (difficult and slow to do), nor does it interfere with their time (time being the most valuable thing in the world).  It also addresses pollution caused by non-urban driving.

To artificially create traffic jams by removing a lane for bikes is an asshole move as most people bike in only fair weather (thus having to find alternative means) and is mostly for relatively short distances.  Notwithstanding the fact that bicyclists (in my area anyway) are assholes who don't obey ANY rules of the road (and have a huge sense of entitlement), bike lanes, at best, should be only for new construction.

mattchuck2 wrote

Do some research, bud. Jimmy Carter increased CAFE standards to require car companies to make more fuel efficient cars.

Auto makers can "artificially" increase the mileage for the CAFE standards by having E85 compatible vehicles (Corporate Average Fuel Economy).  I don't see that aspect helping the environment due to both the relatively huge amount of energy required to produce ethanol and the relative scarcity of it.

mattchuck2 wrote

 
Do some research, bud. Jimmy Carter increased CAFE standards to require car companies to make more fuel efficient cars. Reagan got in and destroyed those rules. 30 years later, Obama tried to do the same thing, now Trump is going to undo that.
 

Obama all but killed the used car market with his wonderful cash for clunkers program  ---- it was the biggest monkey fuckin a football program I've ever been a part of ---- i do not have the words to truly express how shitty that program was. And I mean everything about it. The paperwork itself involved was an enormous cluster fuck!

PeeTex wrote

raisingarizona wrote

But bro.....I drive a Prius! Bahaha!

Your Prius over it's life cycle is worse than a gas powered car if you take into account what it took to manufacture it and what it will take to dispose of it. As an example, where do you think all the lithium, copper, plastics and rare earths required to make that thing came from?

 

truth right there ^^^^

wait until those batteries start exploding

Harvey wrote

Sincere question, and I should know the answer to it as I was trained as an economist:

Can the economy grow without a growing population?  

I am both hopeful and skeptical.  If it can't, then man is doomed from inception.

I do think that if the population was steady, less growth would be required for success.  If a plan was ever constructed to shrink the population, boy you would have to be careful.   Maybe some combo of efficiency and common sense could get it done.

I had a $10 bet that that question would get asked - guess were even

The economy only needs to grow if there is population growth. If the economy shrinks but the per-capita income rises because the population is shrinking faster doesn't that work as well?

 

I've read conflicting reports on the foot print of a Prius vs. regular gas burning auto but what you are saying was exactly my point. The libs giving themselves BJ's over driving a Prius are stroking themselves and uninformed. It would be nice to save that much cash on gas though.

Harvey wrote

Sincere question, and I should know the answer to it as I was trained as an economist:

Can the economy grow without a growing population?  

I am both hopeful and skeptical.  If it can't, then man is doomed from inception.

I do think that if the population was steady, less growth would be required for success.  If a plan was ever constructed to shrink the population, boy you would have to be careful.   Maybe some combo of efficiency and common sense could get it done.

Historically human behavior and our most "successful" civilizations sure does seem to mirror the growth of cancer cells.  

And my friends in the health field are saying the same thing about Obama Care.

too much government is no bueno.

raisingarizona wrote

It would be nice to save that much cash on gas though.

Haha, so you're saying it IS better for the exact thing that PeeTex was talking about (fuel consumption). I knew you'd get there eventually.

PeeTex wrote

The economy only needs to grow if there is population growth. If the economy shrinks but the per-capita income rises because the population is shrinking faster doesn't that work as well?

"Needs to grow" is a different thing.  I get that you need less total income if you have few people.

I'm asking a different question:

Can the economy expand if population is shrinking.  Meaning is it actually possible?

mattchuck2 wrote

raisingarizona wrote

It would be nice to save that much cash on gas though.

Haha, so you're saying it IS better for the exact thing that PeeTex was talking about (fuel consumption). I knew you'd get there eventually.

Of course it's better for my wallet.

Harvey wrote

PeeTex wrote

The economy only needs to grow if there is population growth. If the economy shrinks but the per-capita income rises because the population is shrinking faster doesn't that work as well?

"Needs to grow" is a different thing.  I get that you need less total income if you have few people.

I'm asking a different question:

Can the economy expand if population is shrinking.  Meaning is it actually possible?

Of course it's possible. Inflation and productivity improvements help GDP and increasing exports can make up for less consumption at home as well. It's easier if the population grows of course

Sincere question: has it ever happened? In the US? Otherplaces? If yes, thank goodness.

Don't know if it's ever happened. If it has, I would guess it was someplace in Europe, Germany maybe. The opposite has certainly happened- when an economy shrank in spite of increasing population. The U.S. population has always grown I think, even though the growth is slowing. I'm sure you could find a chart some place that tracks economic growth against population growth in the U.S.

Cool. I sincerely hope it's not impossible.

Even if it is we could do a much better job running out the string.