Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

Benny Profane
MC2 5678F589 wrote
evantful wrote
And Boomers and Gen Xer's are greedy yet financially inept generations that have stood over the the accumulation of 20 trillion dollars of national debt, making healthcare virtually unaffordable, created the largest economic downturn since the great depression. All the while thinking they "had it tough and everyone else is soft". My grandparents generation basically handed the Boomers the world, the United States at its peak, with every benefit, social service or otherwise, imaginable.

See how generalizations aren't exactly reasonable?

Maybe stop worrying so much about what Millennial's are, you guys aren't exactly god's great gift to the world.
Exactly this.

Every article or post that starts with "Millennials are killing..." does a complete disservice to its readers if it fails to mention two things:

1. Things are more expensive these days, especially things that people need (health care, housing, education).
2. Salaries are garbage & working conditions suck (lots of jobs have no paid vacation, no paid sick days, crappy or no health care coverage, crappy or no retirement packages, no overtime pay, etc.).

People these days don't have money and they don't have time. I work 3 jobs in the winter to afford skiing (down from 4) and just about break even (after factoring in gas money, apres beers, equipment, and lift tickets/season pass).

The other point that evantful makes later in the thread (most of the good jobs left are in cities far away from skiing) is a good one, too. Harder to motivate when you have to drive hours to get to the mountains.

I've found that there are a lot of privileged people on this board - people who went to school when it was a lot cheaper, people who own properties that provide them a passive income every month, people who debate which $60,000 SUV to buy.

Fewer people recognize that privilege. They were privileged to grow up in a time when jobs were better and higher paying (relative to inflation), when you could afford to "put yourself through college", when the local factory job provided high school dropouts with 30 years of employment and a pension & gold watch at their retirement.

It's far easier to just declare that "Kids these days are lazy" rather than to look at what has changed and why people might not be willing to throw down $300 to slide on snow for a couple of hours.

This.
funny like a clown
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

campgottagopee
In reply to this post by Benny Profane
Benny Profane wrote
campgottagopee wrote
Huh? Yea, 600 bucks ---- pass 400 --- boots, skis, poles 200 --- it's the old math, not the new math

And I suppose you walk to the ski hill in winter stopping to forage berries and maybe hunt down squirrels for food, and wear animal hides from your hunts as warmth?

Dude, most people lives hours from ski hills.
That's what I figured you were talking about ---- I moved to where I could ski everyday. I lived in absolute shit holes, made no money, lived on whatever food I could afford, didn't have TV, didn't have fancy clothes, depending on if my car started I drove, walked, hitchhiked, skied to work. So it can be done --- still can be done. I have friends who have kids doing it, and not on the parents dime. It's all about what a person is willing to give up to make something happen.
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

raisingarizona
I’ve done the same to be able to ski as much as I have but I think it’s ridiculous to expect a lot of other people to do the same. If an activity requires hard working middle class participants to sacrifice everything else in their lives to continue participating then it’s not gonna last forever. I still ski because we have a local hill and I make it work but if I were struggling and living a few hours from skiing I would be forced to quit.
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

raisingarizona
But again, if climate science is right then in 20 or so years we aren’t going to give a shot about the sustainability of the ski industry. We are going to be scrambling trying to figure out what to do with billions of displaced people and keeping us from going into a full on nuclear world war.
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

campgottagopee
In reply to this post by raisingarizona
There's a reason we were called ski bums.  in order for it to work a person truly needs to embrace the word bum. Been there done that. I don't want to go back because being broke totally sucks. That said, I wouldn't trade those years for anything!
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

raisingarizona
Me too and I’m done now. My body hurts and I’m terrified of another head injury.

Your description of making it work is exactly why people don’t want to ski anymore though. We are weird. :D
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

JasonWx
also back in the day, we weren't saddled with a smartphone bill, netflik bill, spotify, hulu etc
"Peace and Love"
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

campgottagopee
What ski bum even pays their bills
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

raisingarizona
I love my Netflix!
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

campgottagopee
In reply to this post by JasonWx
You know what's funny about that, well not haha funny. Anyway, my Grandma had passed and it took my parents 4 days to get a hold of me to let me know. man was my Mom pissed!!

what the hell is spotify and hulu?
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

tjf1967
In reply to this post by MC2 5678F589
I've been hearing this for generations now.  I don't think it is harder today than it was 20/30/40 years ago just different.
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

MC2 5678F589
tjf1967 wrote
I've been hearing this for generations now.  I don't think it is harder today than it was 20/30/40 years ago just different.




And, during the last 20 years:


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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

Benny Profane
Thank god for those cheap TVs.
funny like a clown
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

Brownski
In reply to this post by MC2 5678F589
 Apart from the generational differences, I'm noticing a divide between rural and suburban/urban skiers. It's definately easier to ski for cheap if you live closer to the mountains.
 Maybe skiing will go back to being a rural niche activity at some point. That's sort of ok in my opinion. I like no-frills operations with fixed grip lifts anyway. They kept ticket prices down.
Skiing is thousands of years old but it's only existed in its current form since the 20s or 30s, which is really just a blink of an eye historically speaking.
"You want your skis? Go get 'em!" -W. Miller
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

Brownski
In reply to this post by Benny Profane
Benny Profane wrote
Thank god for those cheap TVs.
Amen
"You want your skis? Go get 'em!" -W. Miller
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

MC2 5678F589
In reply to this post by Brownski
Brownski wrote
 Maybe skiing will go back to being a rural niche activity at some point. That's sort of ok in my opinion. I like no-frills operations with fixed grip lifts anyway. They kept ticket prices down.
Skiing is thousands of years old but it's only existed in its current form since the 20s or 30s...
I don't think that skiers would be better off if we all went back to the days where Vikings used skis for transportation and hunting.

More likely scenario is what RA sketches out. Global warming destroys skiing in most places by 2100 (including the east), worldwide by 2200.

I'm in favor of really high gasoline taxes, really high jet fuel taxes, and really high dirty electricity taxes. That would solve all of these problems - forces skiers to live closer to mountains, leads to a decreased use of fossil fuels, promotes green energy, and encourages mountains to use less snowmaking & grooming.
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

campgottagopee
Did yo have your helmet on while typing that?
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

brooklynrob
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Brownski
I think it's all very sad. Skiing is going the way of golf -- just like there used to be little public 9 hole courses all over the place there used to many more small mountains (even before serious snowmaking). It was objectively healthier for people of all income bands to be out playing golf in the summer and skiing in the winter then sitting inside on Twitter. I know it's not that simple, but the trend line is not in favor of getting outdoors for kids or adults.

I have a larger thesis that the social element of golf, skiing - heck, even going to a bar, is the opposite of social media in its impact. When, say, a group of middle age men play golf or ski ever couple weeks I think the group dynamic is that crazy, nutty stuff gets sort of normalized out through in person interactions -- i.e., "Hey, Steve, come on man.. that's a little out there now." On the other hand social media awards the crazy with lots of views and likes. When we're not getting together to play golf, bowl, ski, and just be present with each other in person, and trading that for social media, we are losing a lot (I'd note that "traditional" online forums like this seem to function a bit better than FB or TWTR).

As a Gen X dad, it's very expensive to ski with kids. We did one day at Windham this week from NYC. We own our own equipment and packed our own food. But between the bus and lift ticket it was over $400 for myself and my boys. It would be cheaper on one day basis if we owned a car, but annualized it's more expensive (we used to own a car that we parked on the street and used at most 6 times a year, mostly for ski trips). When we do multi-day trips with hotel, food, and a rental car that gets to $600 / day quick.

To be bit political for a second, it seems like we've decided as a society that we're ok with a two class system -- a small elite that can afford vacations, recreation, skiing, etc. and a much larger set of working people who barely make ends meet. That I can tell no politician on the right or left seems to be truly concerned with the problem of income inequality and the related issue of the rise in the cost of living, especially housing. It seems like we'd rather have the dream (fantasy) that we'll all some day each become Mark Zuckerberg than the type of economic security and stability that some other 1st world nations enjoy (which comes at the price of entrepreneurship and some economic dynamism it should be noted).

I don't think we're going to full appreciate what we've lost for another few decades but when I looked back at my two grandfathers who worked hard but were home at 6pm and had the money through their respective single incomes in middle management jobs to each support families of 6 (themselves, my grandmothers, and 4 kids each) and play golf ever week, have a boat, take vacations, go skiing, have a small summer camp, etc. I am envious of the lives they had (after they served in the war, of course). All of that seems so out of reach to me, so unimaginable, and I have only 3 kids and make much much more in economically adjusted terms than either of them did. If we get to the beach a couple times a year, and ski 3-4 days a year, I feel like that's a huge accomplishment and big lift economically (in part because I know I have to save >$500k for the college for 3 kids and then a couple million in our retirement accounts since we can't count on social security being still around or any form of public/socialized help). Every month we wonder if we'll make it month to month and every one i know is in the same boat. Everyone is scared that they'll lost their job and everyone works 12-14 hours a day + weekends.

Back to skiing, it's become a luxury industry where corporations are looking to maximize revenue per (affluent) skier rather than attract a wider set of skiers at a lower per day revenue level.

[EDIT] And, it should be noted, millennial have it worse economically than Gen X. It was not treat 1) graduating in the early 90s to a tepid economy, being in my late 20s for the 1-2 bunch of punch of the dot-com bust and 9/11 and then in my mid 30s for the financial crisis -- this is why so many Gen X folks complain about feeling like they got old before they ever got started. But I've come to see that even the Millennials are having a harder time. They have huge debt levels from college and for most of the ones I know the idea of buying a house is completely out of the question (buying a house now is really just yet another huge transfer of wealth from the younger generation to the older generation, just like the recent tax bill to be political again. This is the opposite of what we should be doing. We want our elders to be able to live their lives out in comfort of course, but generally we want wealth flowing from older to younger not the other way around). Then again, we, the nation that came together to lead the victory in WWII and then the space race and cold war, seem to have now decided it's more fun and important to "own the libtards" then deal with climate change, so as others have pointed out there won't be much skiing anyway in a few years.
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

Brownski
In reply to this post by campgottagopee
campgottagopee wrote
Did yo have your helmet on while typing that?
Awesome call back, camp. That’s why you’re the king
"You want your skis? Go get 'em!" -W. Miller
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Re: Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

MC2 5678F589
I don't get it
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