Millenials aren’t skiing enough?

There’s really two conversations here; one about a generational shift and one about individual choices.

Agreed......and they aren’t mutually exclusive conversations, IMHO.  I’m sure MC will whip out more charts and graphs, maybe an actuary table or two, to show that the circumstances and economics surrounding the generational shifts have robbed younger generations of the ability to make choices.  Of course the fact that he’s made choices that have supported his skiing will betray his argument!

As for Millenials.....I’m not one, nor do I have one, so I can’t speak to their personal experiences.  However, I do work with them.  A lot of them.  Hard working people in good professional jobs, with kids and suburban lifestyles.  I wonder if, individual circumstances aside, life in general is truly that different.  Maybe it is.  Compared to when I was their age they may take home less because health insurance premiums are that much higher, but so are salaries to a degree.  Some, but not all, may have higher student loan payments.  Surely there are other things......but there always were things.  Millenials are not the first generation to live paycheck to paycheck in the adult world.  We did it with nothing more than a decent job and little support.  Hard work and choices, some good, some bad, some we’ll undoubtedly regret, and we managed to ski through it all.

I think it can still be done, yet fewer people are choosing to do it.  I’ve got Gen Zs in the house and I have no idea where the next adult skiing generation will land.  I’ve got one passionate skier, one middle of the road, and one softie.  Who knows where jobs and choices after college will lead them with respect to skiing.

One thing I think every skier needs is someone to support and encourage them to some degree.  Without my aunt and uncle my brothers and I would never have been introduced to the sport, and they helped with trips and lodging when we were new to the sport.  We’ll continue to do the same for our kids, and hope the skiing lifestyle that has been a big part of my extended family for decades will continue another generation or more.  It will be sad if the combination of softer generations, shit economics, and global warming prevent that.

TJF.....not paying for CDs, that’s what Columbia House was for!

B-rob and evantful......why not put your degree to work with the high paying job in Manhattan AND live the mid-Hudson Valley “upstate” lifestyle?

As for skiing being more expensive.....for a young adult lift tickets are.  But there are lots of deals out there.  Is p-b&j really that much more expensive than back in the day?  Heck of a lot of serviceable skiing goods to be had on the cheap at local ski swaps, the way I did it back in the day.  Reality is that it is more expensive, but I don’t think it has to be prohibitively so.

JTG4eva! wrote

One thing I think every skier needs is someone to support and encourage them to some degree.  Without my aunt and uncle my brothers and I would never have been introduced to the sport, and they helped with trips and lodging when we were new to the sport.  We’ll continue to do the same for our kids, and hope the skiing lifestyle that has been a big part of my extended family for decades will continue another generation or more.  It will be sad if the combination of softer generations, shit economics, and global warming prevent that.

Support by a passionate skier certainly can make a difference.  My husband is a non-skier.  I was driving 3-4 hours for ski weekends in the southeast after getting my daughter started at age 4.  We flew to SLC for a few ski days at Alta when she was 7.  That got her totally hooked.  She was an advanced skier by age 11.  Not skiing that much in high school but will certainly never stop skiing.

Also hosted my niece who lived 2.5 hours away from our home mountain (Massanutten) for a few years the week before Christmas for a day or two of skiing.  Had my brother been unwilling to drive her, she probably would never have skied again after a couple Girl Scout day trips.

Have turned my friend and her kids into skiers in recent years.  She was very interested to learn at the same time as her kids by taking group lessons.  The kids started at ages 4 and 6 with ski school.  The fact that the mother liked skiing is why skipping other weekend activities once or twice a winter is an option.  They flew out to Alta for the first time last April, kids were ages 8 and 10.  Boy was skiing blacks (Level 7 Alta Ski School), girl was skiing any blue, and mom was on easy blues after a couple lessons.  Another spring break trip to Alta planned for early April.  Father and husband is a non-skier but is happy to support the rest of the family for ski trips in his own way.  But without me helping out to get them started, skiing might never had been part of the mix of weekend activities.  

Are Millenials in their 20s now?  Or are some in their 30s?  Trying to think about whether they are likely to have kids who are in elementary school.

JTG4eva! wrote

B-rob and evantful......why not put your degree to work with the high paying job in Manhattan AND live the mid-Hudson Valley “upstate” lifestyle?

Because who the hell wants to sit in a car or on a train for 2 hours each way 5 days a week. Obviously many people do it, but that comes back to my point, at one point the Mid Hudson Valley use to support a large workforce that could live AND work in the suburbs with solidly middle class jobs. 20-30 years ago I could almost certainly worked in the HV quite easily.

I want to point out that Im not disappointed with the fact Im not directly applying my degree. I made a choice, to stay or to go, and I am happy with my decision. Im only reflecting that its a good deal harder now for younger people in my area to stay. Like others have said before, its not necessarily harder than it was before to live, its different for sure, but in relation to a skier down turn, Im not surprised given what we have talked about. Those "differences" have my it harder, in my view, to engage in skiing, as a percentage of the population, to a degree that previous generations have before.

And definitely I think pass products in the last decade have made skiing really attainable. Hell Belleayre has a $349 Non-Holiday pass, thats a great deal!

First of the Millenials are hitting mid-30s.

Generally (with some debate)......Gen X early 60s to late 70s.  Millennials (Gen Y) late 70s to mid-90s, Gen Z late 90s plus.  

evantful wrote

Because who the hell wants to sit in a car or on a train for 2 hours each way 5 days a week.

You may have just made somebody’s point!

Wants to?  Who said anything about wanting to?  I don’t want to......but it’s a choice (sacrifice) I make to achieve the things my family wants, including skiing.  I’ve been commuting OUT of the same HV area you are in since day one of my career almost 30 years ago.  Unless you were an IBM tech person the HV never had the lucrative jobs that Stamford and NYC offered.

I understand, but I think you missed my point on that was my personal choice and we are talking about general populations who without ease of access are less likely to engage in skiing

My personal sacrifice is I wont make what I probably would have if I worked in Manhattan. My gain is that 20hrs of my week are not consumed by commuting, albeit still living on a very comfortable income and being in reasonable day trip proximity to the Catskills.

Going back to what I said in relation to the original thread topic, from the late 50's - early 90's the Mid Hudson Valley supported a young work force that could live and work there with solidly middle class incomes. Now, like you are saying, many have to commute to the direct NYC metro area to achieve that

At 4 hours a day commuting it's about 880 hours a year with two weeks of vacation thrown in. Lets say you work this job for 30 years and now you are looking at spending 26,400 hours or 2200 days or around 6 years of your life commuting to and from work. 6 years man!

I'd rather be poor and buy some hiking boots.

I hear you, in that you have made your own choices and sacrifices, personal choices with which you are happy.  That’s cool.  I’m still not convinced the grass was as green in the HV as you think it was 30 years ago, because when I graduated in 1990 good finance and accounting jobs in the area were few and far between, and I knew the job market in the area wouldn’t support my goals.

raisingarizona wrote

6 years man!

Eh.  All depends on how you look at it.  A quarter of that 6 years I’d just have spent sleeping in the morning.  With holidays and 5 weeks vaca you can knock it down more.  “Give up” (it’s not like the commuting time is all non-productive!) maybe 4 years to commuting time in exchange for the opportunities it has provided me and my family......I can live with that!

JTG4eva! wrote

First of the Millenials are hitting mid-30s.

Generally (with some debate)......Gen X early 60s to late 70s.  Millennials (Gen Y) late 70s to mid-90s, Gen Z late 90s plus.

I wonder how the graph in Post #1 would look separated by region.  Say northeast compared to Rocky Mountains.   Or Midwest compared to PacNW.  Or Midwest compared to Mid-Atlantic.  Be really interesting to see a comparison of the ski areas within 3 hours of NYC/NJ/Philly and those that require driving 4+ hours, which is longer than most people are willing to drive for a day trip.

I also wonder about the data source.  What type of ski resorts are represented?  Small places like my home mountain are unlikely to be able to provide a breakdown of guests based on age since the majority were buying tickets at the window.  Only started selling tickets online this season, and there is probably not a question about the age of the people who are either buying or using those tickets.  (Academic background is in statistics.)

I've only been skiing regularly (>10 days a season) for about a decade.  So don't have that much context for shifts in the demographics of the people on the slopes.  I know is that the few ski areas that have survived in the southeast and Mid-Atlantic that are within a few hours drive of a metropolitan area are very crowded every weekend until mid-Feb.  Includes families with kids under age 12.  After Pres. Day people move on to other activities no matter how good the snow conditions are and how low late season rates go.

raisingarizona wrote

I'd rather be poor and buy some hiking boots.

 Most days I feel this way.

 I still don't understand why everyone here thinks you have to live in the NY Metro area to afford skiing. I'm very happy living in Central NY Where I'm close to the mountains, and their's still enough people around to not feel like you're living in the middle of nowhere. I really believe that if you're willing to look around you, take advantage of the opportunities at hand, you can make a meaningful living just about anywhere. And have plenty of money to set aside for the things you love.

Hell, The cost of living in Delaware county is significantly lower than anywhere in NYC or HV. If you make 40K a year you're doing really well. That's a dream salary for a lot of guys around here. If you're married and have a family you can double that. It's really all relative to where you live. There's actually a fair number of locals who ski and can afford it even on that pay.  

I guess it's hard for people who didn't grow up in the area to understand.

Ethan I knew you were a good hard working dude the day you bought that Chev truck ---- good for you

I agree with what you and RA are saying

JTG4eva! wrote

raisingarizona wrote

6 years man!

Eh.  All depends on how you look at it.  A quarter of that 6 years I’d just have spent sleeping in the morning.  With holidays and 5 weeks vaca you can knock it down more.  “Give up” (it’s not like the commuting time is all non-productive!) maybe 4 years to commuting time in exchange for the opportunities it has provided me and my family......I can live with that!

I freaking love sleeping

One thing about the tri state and other urban/suburban areas is the culture. I’m not saying this relates to anyone on here so please Dont come back with a defensive post but let’s face it, it’s a material based culture and people tend to live extravagantly or even beyond their means to keep up with the Jones’s. Ski trips might be low on their list.

campgottagopee wrote

Ethan I knew you were a good hard working dude the day you bought that Chev truck ---- good for you

Yeah that truck is something else. I was told by the certain person (who I mentioned before) I bought if from that it was all fixed up and needed no work. That was actually bullshit. They did do a lot of work to it, but it needed a lot more. Driving it home, I filled the tank, and lost half of it because of a leak. I also developed a radiator leak due to a hose clamp. A shitty experience for owning a tuck for less than a half hour. It needed all new brakes (calipers, rotors, pads) but I kind of knew that before buying it. I also found out later that there was a major brake in the frame that was only half fixed. It was hiding on me behind the front suspension components before I bought it. I found out later that it was because the previous owner ran the truck into a bridge abutment and only half fixed the frame. It wasn't terrible but not good enough for inspection purposes. They did a great job with the bodywork. I would have never met the original owner if the crack pot who sold it to me hadn't given me the old title from the previous owner who just happened to live on the same road as my grandmother.

In spite of all this headache, I still love the truck, I've put a lot of money into it to bring it back to good condition. I've been keeping it at a local mechanic's I know down the road from me. I had him fix the frame properly, do the brakes, replace the gas tank, service the transmission, replace the valve cover gaskets and clean up the engine a bit, he's storing it for me for the winter and I plan to put it on the road in the winter. That being said it was not exactly a smart buy on my part but or some reason I still love it, and I have no regrets buying it.




That's my other POS 1/2 ton chev I'm driving now in the background, but this things going to be sweet this spring. If I have the time and money this winter I'll put A new intake and headers on it and that 454 will rip ass! Maybe bigger wheels and tires someday too, but no lift.

Sorry for the thread drift. You just kind of got me excited about one of my big projects. Now back to those goddamn Millenials

I built my life around not commuting.  I did the same math RA did.  I found a company I liked and bought a house within walking distance.  I've been walking to work since 1988.  Nuts huh.

That's not such a bad idea actually. If you have a job and you like it a lot, why not save precious time and money buy getting rid of the commute. Especially if you're driving a vehicle like the one pictured above.