NCPR Story on Front Street Development

Story on North Country Public Radio this morning outlines Johnsburg town supervisor Sterling Goodspeed's concern's about the project:

Town "struggles" with North Creek resort

Two years ago, the Adirondack Park Agency approved a massive new resort in North Creek. Front Street Mountain Development was meant to bring more than 130 luxury condos to the village, along with five hotels, restaurants and a riding stable. The idea was to tie the resort in with the North Creek ski bowl, offering ski-from-your door condominiums. But so far, only one model home has been built and no properties in the resort have been sold. As Brian Mann reports, local officials are questioning the project’s future.

(Click link above for full story.)

Is anybody really suprised by this situation? The worst housing market in many years combined with a long history of unfinished projests in North Creek leads us to where North Creek is today. As long as ORDA/Gore mngmnt refuses to market Gore as a destination resort the list of unfinished projects will continue to mount. I understand that we all like the lack of crowds at Gore but I do not enjoy the lack of terrain midweek and the lack of snowmaking power. More homeowners means more people skiing midweek = a better Gore.

The fact that Front Street is moving so slow might be the smartest thing for Front Street. Putting capital into units that are not going to sell now is a road that leads to failure. I wonder if and when the permits expire?

I wonder what they are thinking in Tupper Lake.

Trouble in Camelot?

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“The fiscal future of our town is at risk,” Goodspeed wrote.  “Failure on the part of the developer to complete the project may ultimately land back on the town board’s lap."  

There have also been lengthy and sometimes heated negotiations with the local officials over water supply and fire protection.

" But really it’s the town’s obligation to make sure that its interests are protected and that the town doesn’t get left holding the financial bag in terms of failed infrastructure and failed financial commitments"  
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Those are some odd statements. If Front Street doesn't build, how would the Town be responsible for any future costs ? It doesn't add up. There's other unfullfilled projects in North Creek that aren't costing the Town.

What is Stirling eluding to? Is the Town in a " legal corner " where if Front Street doesn't pay for the infrastructure, (water/sewage) the Town may have to finance these utilities for any housing Front Street would build ?

Is Front Street now backtracking on the Fire Truck it's supposed to purchase for the Town? If they don't build, why would fire protection matter? Are they threatening to build and then make the Town pay for a new Fire Truck? And utilities?

Did Front Street out manuever the Town during negotiations and now the Town is on the horns of a dilemma? Developers can be slick.

Maybe Stirling is just Tub Thumping.

I recall some ORDA comments to the effect if the Ski Bowl doesn't fly, it's going back to the Town's responsibility to operate it. Which means the Town would suffer any future financial losses and the Ski Bowl would be a flop.

What about the Ski Bowl if Front Street doesn't build? Who will operate it? It seems the Town owns it and Orda is just operating it for them, for now. If Front street doesn't build, will ORDA continue to operate the Ski Bowl? Will our passes remain valid there or will skiers have to choose between skiing Gore or skiing the Ski Bowl? That's no contest, the Ski Bowl will lose big time.

This could turn out to be a real cluster fudge. On the other hand, the one completed home there might go cheap!

I gotta add something to the equation.. For a year or more, the news has been reporting that the housing market here is in good shape and has not been hit like the rest of the country.



"Speaking last week, Crikelair insised that the downturn in the housing market isn’t a major factor in delays with the resort"

Soooo......what's up?

I'll start by saying I am no expert in housing/development.     There are lots of people smarter than me, but then again, there are a lot of folks dumber too.    


In the Tupper Lake review...an expert was quoted as saying that there is not a slump in the high-end second/third home market.    True no homes have sold in Front Street, but then these same rich people are not fools.    I would think the sewage matter (once resolved) will end that.    I had not heard of the sewage issue before this story broke and I too was wondering why more homes were not being built.    An example of where high end homes are selling quite easily is the town houses off Peaceful Valley...the builder finishes one and its sold, three or 4 more are underconstruction now.    I would imagine Front Street is going to give this development some competion as the Front St plan is very nice.  I'd buy in if I had that kind of cash.      Take a drive back to the model home---its wonderful.      For more evidence, take a drive on some back roads....several million dollar homes being built or re-built.    

Front Street is spending money and continues spending on infrastructure...I am sure their plan was to have more homes faster, but just as in the Tupper thread that expert advised, he does not want empty streets.   Build to suit demand.

 

I have been in Front Street's model home and it is very nice. Just for the record, it looks like a single family home but it is actually a duplex.  I believe the asking price was around 750 for one half of the dwelling.  What would concern me is a potential homeowner are the HOA fees.  How can hey predict what they are going to be with any accuracy?

The more broadminded people of Tupper Lake are thinking this is a cautionary tale that we should consider to be a red flag and a warning to continue to go slow, ask valid, pertinent business and real estate questions, do our necessary homework and not be bullied into buying any or all of the A.C.R. propaganda. It would be really nice if Peter Crowley would consider publishing part or all of the N.P.R. article in his Saranac Lake Daily Enterprise so more folks in Tupper Lake, and even the A.C.R.'s confederates in the Adirondacks, would get the benefit of a different viewpoint and the realities of developemental difficulties in the ongoing economic downturn.

It would seem obvious to even the less enlightened that if there are big, maybe insurmountable,  problems downstate, there just might be an off-chance of those same problems,  if not possibly worse, in rural, economically devastated upstate . While one doesn't doubt that it is indeed a small, small world, it certainly goes without saying there will never be a word about the stagnant Front Street debacle in the Tupper Lake Free Press  and the concerns and anxieties of the good, honest folks in North Creek and that locale.

We also are waiting to see Alex Haddad's rebuttal of the latest pompous Tom Lawson missive and Alex's answers to Harvey's list of  questions  . It will also be interesting to read The Nature Conservancy's appeal of the Follensby Road crossing case recently rigged and won by the A.C.R. In yet another local side note, the Town of Tupper Lake anxiously awaits the upcoming Amell/Dechene Highway Superintendent election. That result in itself will tell a tale and may not bode well for the A.C.R. and to a much greater extent, their puppet A.R.I.S.E and that ilk. Stay tuned.

Goreskimom wrote

I have been in Front Street's model home and it is very nice. Just for the record, it looks like a single family home but it is actually a duplex.  I believe the asking price was around 750 for one half of the dwelling.  What would concern me is a potential homeowner are the HOA fees.  How can hey predict what they are going to be with any accuracy?

Take whatever HOA fees they tell you and double them. But the HOA fees will be nothing compared to what the town will charge in property taxes.

Snowballs wrote

If Front Street doesn't build, how would the Town be responsible for any future costs ?

This is the same concern coming out of Big Tupper. I want to know this too. What are the costs if FS doesn't build?

Snowballs wrote

I recall some ORDA comments to the effect if the Ski Bowl doesn't fly, it's going back to the Town's responsibility to operate it. Which means the Town would suffer any future financial losses and the Ski Bowl would be a flop.

The way I understand it everything built to date, on both Gore and Little Gore, is either on State or TOJ land. And ORDA has a deal with Johnsburg to operate lifts and terrain on town land through 2027. There are no lifts on Front Street land, just terrain.

Snowballs wrote

What about the Ski Bowl if Front Street doesn't build? Who will operate it? It seems the Town owns it and Orda is just operating it for them, for now. If Front street doesn't build, will ORDA continue to operate the Ski Bowl? Will our passes remain valid there or will skiers have to choose between skiing Gore or skiing the Ski Bowl? That's no contest, the Ski Bowl will lose big time.

It seems to me that if nothing gets built, Gore does what it is doing now.... operates State and TOJ terrain to the best of their ability based on budget and natural snowfall. If the terrain gets totally built out then the trails on skiers left of 46er are Front Streets to groom and maintain. I don't see how that could hurt the town. What am I missing?

If it the real estate project is started but not finished... that's the concern I assume.

I just don't get Stirling's comments " If FS doesn't build, the Town's on the financial hook"....For what? Also surprised he's trying not to seem like a supporter of the Ski Bowl Village now. He's been a huge cheerleader for this project....Why's he trying to distance himself from it now?

Hopefully, it won't matter and all will be okey dokey.

A little more info on the operation of the terrain at the ski bowl.

The land deal is a bit complicated. Front Street had to decide whether or not they wanted to be in the ski business.  By rule, ORDA cannot operate on any terrain that is not either state land, or Town of Johnsburg land.

Front Street opted out of the ski business.

If more trails are developed at the Skibowl, the TOJ will acquire the land those trails are on. Basically ORDA will operate and control all the trails at Gore and Little Gore.