Narrow stance and tip wear

I've noticed that many of my fatter skis are developing major tip wear on the insides of the tips.  Even my older "skinny" skis have this.  For sure, I have more of an old school ski stance and ski very narrow, many times boots clicking together.

Who else has this issue?  Anyone else have every pair of skis they own with inside tip wear?

Widening my stance would be the obvious answer....but it just doesn't feel right, so I end up even skiing my 116 underfoots pretty close.  After 3 days on them, they've got pretty worn already.

Would you consider this "wrong"?  Deciding if I should make conscious effort to correct it...or if it's just "my style"

Just curious what other think about this, starting to notice it more, as I have expanded my quiver.

So you are what we use to call a glue-booter.  

Skiing 116 under foot is going to automatically make you feel like you have a wide stance (for how you normally ski), even if they're constantly coming together. Your self-lesson will be to ski narrower skis at the same width apart as you do the fatties.  Skis/boots together equals no independent keg steering and tipping.  That said, you get a huge powder day, you'll want those fattys closer together to make a big platform.  

A wide stance is a strong stance and that's true in any condition. If you care about getting the most out of your skiing or the most aggressive skiing you are capable of you might want to work on that, if that even matters to you.

I do believe in a few core ideas for form and strength but I also feel that if you have a form that works for you then that's really cool. I would hate to see everyone skiing like the PSIA folks, that would become boring.

Maybe I do widen my stance when necessary but don't really realize it's happening...I'm a pretty strong skier and don't really experience a feeling of instability typically.

Even if I'm adjusting stance throughout the course of a run, the tip wear is for sure an indicator of an overall narrow style

Three generations of skiing, which one are you?

Your feet should be under your hips.  If your tips are rubbing even with fattter skis your feet are not under your hips and your stance is waaay too narrow.

Have your boots been fit by a good boot pro.  If not it's worth checking out to see if something in your alignment is making you feel this way.  You are way too young to be skiing like someone who grew up in the 70's.  A lesson is in order with a psia level 3 Cert instructor.

I was lambasted for my narrowish stance.  Why is a wider stance better then a narrow one?  Killy , Mahres,Ingamar Stenmark all skied with narrow stances..These guys skied during the golden age and in my opinion the coolest skiers ever..

Just curious..

By the way MattC widened up my stance and squared off my shoulders..

It's more biomechanicaly efficient for starters

You can't really tip and pressure the inside ski if it's not under your hips.  The goal is to have the edge angles match but it's impossible if it's not under the hip.  I'd also bet he balances aft as well.

Edging tends to be inclinated vs angulated in this skier and chances are he rotates his whole body to  create turning force instead of turning the femurs in his hip sockets.  

So basically just about everything is wrong  with this.

Coach speaks the truth.

Next time you're clicked into your skis, shove your feet together and check the maximum edge angle you can achieve by tilting your skis. Then widen your skis to hip width (or shoulder width) and try to tilt your skis (you might have to lean on your poles). See how much more of an angle you can achieve? That's why you don't see World Cup racers with their skis glued together. They need some space between the skis to achieve the edge angles they require.

all makes sense..

 in soft / powder conditions or even skiing in the trees..should you revert to a more narrow stance?

I've been told I'm stuck in the70s when watched by people.
Oh well I am having fun

This all makes sense what you guys are saying with tipping the skis etc.

After 27 years of doing it this way...I guess I don't feel that it holds me back from skiing anything, and it's all I've ever done, so it's become my style...Seems to work for me.  

I know it's not 100% of the time, because my stance changes a bit depending on variation in the terrain I'm on...but I'd say it's my "stock" stance for typical smooth groomer skiing.

After this discussion, I'll have to try and analyze it again while I'm skiing this weekend...hard to come up with any conclusions while sitting in a cube...is it Friday yet?

The way I see it, someone can turn plenty effectively, heck....proficiently, and look stylish doing it, with a narrow stance.  If it works for someone, great.  Those turns have, and will, take a person anywhere.  It's likely us somewhat older dogs using the older tricks, and not all older dogs are willing to learn new tricks.  And that's ok.

However......like Coach and Matt said, skiing today is all about edge angle and efficiency, using the technology of today's skis to make the skis do the work while you TRY and achieve a pure carve.  That just isn't happening with a narrow stance.  Skis have changed so much in the past 20 years, it's only logical that technique would as well IF you want to get the most out of the skis and ski more efficiently.  Not that I added anything to what Coach and Matt said, but it's my non-instructor perspective.

That said, and I've mentioned it before, the best thing I've done for my skiing in the past 25 years was take a lesson at Whiteface.  MLK weekend, expert group lesson.  Well, since experts rarely take lessons, it ended up being a private with Bill Fisher.  Two hours with him totally transformed my skiing.  Not that he changed my proficiency level...I could ski anything anywhere before (save hucking cliffs and cornices into 40+ degree chutes)....but in using more efficient techniques that allowed me to properly use the technology under my feet skiing became much easier.  Most of what we worked on was wider stance, edge angles, uphill edges, and proper stance and angulation.  After that lesson (and another) I was able to carve much more than whatever I used to be doing.  I began to achieve the rails I so often admired other skiers laying down on the mountain.  I used to be a big short radius turn guy, but my repertoire opened up, and now I love carving high speed GS turns as much as skiing the edges of the trails with my good old slalom turns, which have also become better.  Skiing is just more flow-y, fun, and best of all....less tiring.

mattchuck2 wrote

Next time you're clicked into your skis, shove your feet together and check the maximum edge angle you can achieve by tilting your skis. Then widen your skis to hip width (or shoulder width) and try to tilt your skis (you might have to lean on your poles). See how much more of an angle you can achieve? That's why you don't see World Cup racers with their skis glued together. They need some space between the skis to achieve the edge angles they require.

As MC2 is saying, feet too close together creates a fulcrum that removes pressure from the inside edge of the downhill ski.

Feet further apart separates your points of contact on the snow and puts you in a more balanced position.  Personally, I always drag my uphill pole for that 3rd point of contact.

telerider wrote

That said, you get a huge powder day, you'll want those fattys closer together to make a big platform.

This is true, too, because if you ski with your skis too far apart, they can easily catch some of the snow and diverge.

Mike, while you might be a few years younger than me, I bet we are VERY similar skiers, we learned the same ways, and have/had been doing the same skiing, fun and in any terrain and any conditions, for 20+ years.  It's a blast, and nothing needs to change for that to continue.

However, being a guy who used to think the exact same thing as your "After 27 years"......trust me, it can get better.  I didn't think so, but as a diversion, and to seek some carving skills, I decided to take a group lesson on a lark.  I'm so glad I did.  

Seek out Bill Fisher.  I can't say enough good things about the guy.  He and I are the exact same age.  He knew how I learned, as he did back in the day.  We could speak the same language, so it was easy for him to convey to me the changes I needed to make, and why.....even though some of the drills we did felt very unnatural at first.  But the tips, the instruction, were truly transformative.  And for someone like me, like you, who is proficient, who understands skiing, they weren't really changes that were that difficult to achieve.  
 
You could do like I did.  Take a 2 hour group lesson this weekend.  There won't be any other experts, and maybe you get lucky and Bill is in the stable and you get to go out with him. Or, seek him out, do a 2 hour private.  It will be the best $225 you ever spent on your skiing.  You won't regret it.

D.B. Cooper wrote

Personally, I always drag my uphill pole for that 3rd point of contact.

Yes!  Not sure if I should be, but when really angulating and getting the skis on edge, hips low, I love that third pressure point.  Just need to make sure the hands are driving forward, shoulders down the hill, so that dragging that pole doesn't pull the shoulder back.

JTG4eva! wrote

D.B. Cooper wrote

Personally, I always drag my uphill pole for that 3rd point of contact.

Yes!  Not sure if I should be, but when really angulating and getting the skis on edge, hips low, I love that third pressure point.  Just need to make sure the hands are driving forward, shoulders down the hill, so that dragging that pole doesn't pull the shoulder back.

JTG  your avatar is pretty good example of the above

Meh --- narrow, wide, shoulder, hips, when in doubt straighten them out

Not sure if this worked but it's one of the few vids I have of myself skiing - I think it's fairly representative of what I'm discussing here, although this is from Utah on a mini powder day...https://instagram.com/p/BDE0H2og21W/


Is there a way to embed this in the post?