ORDA Had a Great Year

Harv- here's a question to pose to Pratt. Ask him for some stats on the home zip codes of Gore skiers. To the best of my knowledge the ticket sellers still ask day ticket buyers for their home zip code. These stats along with the season pass home zip codes will answer the question of where Gore draws skiers from as it relates to the question of Gore/Belleayre overlap. Because Gore is a day trippers ski area, the stats will show a majority from within a 2 hour radius, however you may be surprised at how many skiers do indeed come from metro NY,NJ and even PA. Fewer from CT and almost none from the other New England states.
While gore's marketing has never been that aggressive or innovative, they actually do some ski show and limited special event marketing in the metro NY area. The results are probably more an indication of effectiveness rather than marketing "goals".

adkskier wrote

Harv- here's a question to pose to Pratt. Ask him for some stats on the home zip codes of Gore skiers.

I've got this from the 2006/2007 season:

http://www.nyskiblog.com/2010/05/gore-mountain-visitors.html

that pie chart shows significant overlap of Gore's market with Bells.  Gore is a 1000% better mountain so why bother with Bell.  Let's build out Gore to its max potential (Mr. Pratt - no more flat spots please) and forget about Bell

Also please let's not hear about Gore's money coming from earmarks by Pataki - the LP convention center came from the same earmarks.  Gore's expansion is great though it has too much flat xc type trails included in it.  I'm not a fan of the convention center because that money could have been much better spent on a new chair for LWF and snowmaking on Hoyt's.  Unfortuntately it had to be used as it was earmarked.

ausable skier wrote

 - the LP convention center came from the same earmarks.  

I would love to find the definitive answer on that. Not saying you're wrong per se, Ausie, it's just that I've looked for info as to where that money came from and could not find an answer even though I went through quite a few articles dating back some years.

So, did the Convention Center funds come from a State grant, Orda borrowing, Placid/North Elba borrowing or something else?

Anyone know and have a link?

I find it kinda odd the answer is not more prevalent. Poor reporting by the newspapers.

ausable skier wrote

(Mr. Pratt - no more flat spots please)

Thanks for bringing it up.  Indeed, this is the most annoying part of Gore when it comes to dragging two kids behind me through the flat spots.

When I look at that pie chart I think there is more overlap between Whiteface and Gore than Gore and Bell.

Gore doesn't share Albany, Saratoga/Glens Falls, Canada, or New England with Bell, but does share those areas with Whiteface.

Sharing is not necessarily bad IMO.

Harvey44 wrote

It's also impossible to deny James' point.  If you think that Gore is "second banana" within ORDA, it's a pretty good spot to be in over the past 5 or 10 years. Currently the most visible example of this is the terrain expansion - probably more new terrain than any other mountain in NY. This is part of my thinking with regard to Belleayre.  Even if Belle doesn't get what some would consider "fair treatment" within ORDA, it's likely be to an improvement over the level of investment that is happening at the mountain now.

Belleayre and the terrain expansion and other capital improvements at Gore really have nothing to do with the topic of ORDA failing to adequately promote North Creek and Gore.  "Terrain expansion" and "marketing effort" are not an either-or proposition.  ORDA's mission is to use their facilities as a regional economic engine, and the discrepancy in their marketing efforts last winter (and continuing this summer) has resulted in a lost opportunity for economic activity on Main Street in North Creek.   Gore has come a long way in the past 5-10 years, they need to get out there, "go OTW," and tell their story.  Not for the purpose of just increasing skier visits at Gore, but rather for the purpose of driving economic activity for the Gore region.

Harvey44 wrote

Call me a cave man, but I care far more about operational upgrades than marketing.

I wouldn't be surprised if the priorities were exactly reversed on Main Street, North Creek.  Those folks could benefit from some "OTW" marketing efforts by ORDA, and such efforts would probably go a long way towards eliminating some of the ill will that exists towards ORDA in North Creek.

To be clear, I'm thankful for the capital projects at Gore (and WF) over the years, I think Gore has come a long way, and I am in favor of the proposal for ORDA to operate Belleayre.  But ORDA's not perfect, and promotional effort of the North Creek region is one area where ORDA could stand some improvement.

Hear Hear! Thanks for keeping it on point Jeff.

I attended ORDA's most recent board meeting.  Whiteface was 95% or more of their marketing campaign.

Hear Hear! ^^^

Absolutely sickening.

If it weren't for the State, Gore would never be where it's at today with the improvements.

Heck, if it wasn't for Betty Little, et al going up to that ORDA meeting to bitch slap ORDA into releasing the State's money for Gore's expansion, they'ld still be dragging their feet and maybe even spent it elsewhere.

Belle Beware !

Thanks Peter!

Adk Jeff wrote

"Terrain expansion" and "marketing effort" are not an either-or proposition.

I agree with this.  

I was really addressing the idea presented earlier in the thread that if Gore isn't getting 50% of the marketing love then ORDA should "cut them loose."

I don't think either Gore or Whiteface have significant marketing (advertising) budgets. Today the substitute for money is time and creativity with "free" (social) media. IMO, in this situation, that's the only way to go. That kind of effort could come from Lake Placid or North Creek or both.