ORDA Had a Great Year

North Country Public Radio (NCPR) - the voice of public radio in the Adirondacks aired this story today. Click through to listen: http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/17923/20110629/orda-builds-appeal-despite-state-budget-cuts

Well, now I've heard everything. These people are patting themselves on the back for their supposed genius marketing. oy vey.

adkskier wrote

North Country Public Radio (NCPR) - the voice of public radio in the Adirondacks aired this story today. Click through to listen: http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/17923/20110629/orda-builds-appeal-despite-state-budget-cuts

Great stuff...glad to read it.

This part of the article bothers me:

Liz Mezzetti, ORDA’s director of marketing, said outside of terrific snowfall and hordes of Canadian visitors, some clever marketing worked wonders. “Essentially, Ted came to us and said, ‘you guys, we need to accomplish some goals this year because we’re facing a huge deficit, you need to go OTW,’” she said. “We said, ‘what’s that?’ He said, go ‘off the wall.’ He said we need ideas, we need to run and get people here and get people excited about Whiteface and Lake Placid.”

In some cases, going “off the wall” meant flooding the urban markets with billboard campaigns and a host of television and radio advertising.

Mezzetti says her marketing team also got fans of Whiteface to do some work for ORDA.

“The ‘Road Warriors’ was the highlight of the OTW campaign,” she said. “It was wildly exciting; we went to Albany, Saratoga, Plattsburgh, Lake George, some of our main key markets, and asked people to meet us on the road and find us in our locations dressed in their ski gear in the middle of the summer to earn lift tickets to ski Whiteface.”

The new marketing campaigns coupled with ideal weather and improving tourism created a sort of “perfect storm” for ORDA, and its success has officials at other state agencies taking notes.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see any creative "OTW" marketing blitz at Gore.  Gore is part of ORDA.  I can understand why people in North Creek might feel short-changed, summer or winter.  

Well...Ted didn't go to Gore to tell them to "go OTW!"
Gore marketing is the antithesis of thinking outside the box

Adk Jeff wrote

This part of the article bothers me:

Liz Mezzetti, ORDA’s director of marketing, said outside of terrific snowfall and hordes of Canadian visitors, some clever marketing worked wonders. “Essentially, Ted came to us and said, ‘you guys, we need to accomplish some goals this year because we’re facing a huge deficit, you need to go OTW,’” she said. “We said, ‘what’s that?’ He said, go ‘off the wall.’ He said we need ideas, we need to run and get people here and get people excited about Whiteface and Lake Placid.”

In some cases, going “off the wall” meant flooding the urban markets with billboard campaigns and a host of television and radio advertising.

Mezzetti says her marketing team also got fans of Whiteface to do some work for ORDA.

“The ‘Road Warriors’ was the highlight of the OTW campaign,” she said. “It was wildly exciting; we went to Albany, Saratoga, Plattsburgh, Lake George, some of our main key markets, and asked people to meet us on the road and find us in our locations dressed in their ski gear in the middle of the summer to earn lift tickets to ski Whiteface.”

The new marketing campaigns coupled with ideal weather and improving tourism created a sort of “perfect storm” for ORDA, and its success has officials at other state agencies taking notes.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see any creative "OTW" marketing blitz at Gore.  Gore is part of ORDA.  I can understand why people in North Creek might feel short-changed, summer or winter.

So does Liz Mezzetti, ORDA’s Director of Marketing, market for ORDA or for Whiteface only?

adkskier wrote

Well...Ted didn't go to Gore to tell them to "go OTW!"
Gore marketing is the antithesis of thinking outside the box

Hehehe. IMO, Gore's minimalist marketing is exactly how ORDA prefers it, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

A guy at the helm of ORDA should at least have the PR skills to include Gore in his statement.  The fact that he just mentioned Whiteface speaks volumes.  ORDA has an obligation to be an economic engine for Gore/North Creek also, or to cut them loose and let them be an independent entity.

I have to think the factors that were also given credit for success this year - weather and the exchange rate - were huge factors.  If I could pick two out of three to repeat next year - weather, exchange rate or OTW marketing promotions - I'd stick with the first two. The story is off message for a lot of reasons including some of those mentioned by Jeff and GSM.

Goreskimom wrote

A guy at the helm of ORDA should at least have the PR skills to include Gore in his statement.  The fact that he just mentioned Whiteface speaks volumes.  ORDA has an obligation to be an economic engine for Gore/North Creek also, or to cut them loose and let them be an independent entity.

Gore has been given a LOT of money for expansion. I'd rather have that than some perfunctory mention in a statement by a development authority CEO.

Jamesdeluxe wrote

Gore has been given a LOT of money for expansion. I'd rather have that than some perfunctory mention in a statement by a development authority CEO.

It's not a question of being mentioned in a statement.  It's a question of being included in the marketing and promotional efforts to increase visitation and drive economic activity in the region.  Funds for expansion and promotional efforts aren't mutually exclusive.

its really a matter of WF and Lake Placid being much more marketable farther afield.  WF has a higher yield per skier day as well so it makes more sense to invest more heavily in marketing for WF than it does Gore.

Gore likely would do the same skier days if it was agressively marketed or not.  I think that Gore does more skier days than WF but its pulling from a smaller geographic area market that that Gore can draw from compared to WF.  WF took skiers away from Mont Tremblant and VT this past year so the marketing was money well spent.  Gore got lots of expansion money and had a nice year as well.  Everyone should be happy.

While I see ausable skier's point to some degree, I don't agree that marketing would make no difference in Gore's skier days. Regardless of where people are coming from, or whether or not they are destination skiers, or day skiers, they have choices. And how hard would it be to include Gore in a promotion?

It's also impossible to deny James' point.  If you think that Gore is "second banana" within ORDA, it's a pretty good spot to be in over the past 5 or 10 years. Currently the most visible example of this is the terrain expansion - probably more new terrain than any other mountain in NY. This is part of my thinking with regard to Belleayre.  Even if Belle doesn't get what some would consider "fair treatment" within ORDA, it's likely be to an improvement over the level of investment that is happening at the mountain now.

Call me a cave man, but I care far more about operational upgrades than marketing.

Gore has accomplished a lot. It may not be all things to all people (ie summer) but it's making progress at being more competitive in winter every year. And it's happened through a very difficult time economically. I realize that summer infrastructure upgrades to the winter product don't bring summer visitors to town, they do keep employees working.

Harv

I agree with all you said except the Bell part.  That never is going to be a winner and will be a drain to the rest of Orda.

Gore should be marketed within its target market and maybe with a tie into Whiteface for the NYC / NJ market.  Maybe a discounted last day at Gore with the purchase of 2 or 3 day WF ticket.  It makes sense for folks driving back to NYC / NJ to ski their last day at Gore.  They'll have a good experience and hopefully return in the future.

The only ski area in the east that truely excels at both marketing and operational performance is Jay Peak and mother nature smiles on them more than the rest.

ausable skier wrote

its really a matter of WF and Lake Placid being much more marketable farther afield.  WF has a higher yield per skier day as well so it makes more sense to invest more heavily in marketing for WF than it does Gore.

Gore likely would do the same skier days if it was agressively marketed or not.  I think that Gore does more skier days than WF but its pulling from a smaller geographic area market that that Gore can draw from compared to WF.  WF took skiers away from Mont Tremblant and VT this past year so the marketing was money well spent.  Gore got lots of expansion money and had a nice year as well.  Everyone should be happy.

How about being an hour or more closer to population centers to the south? What, are we just going to give up on NYC metro and market to the Great White North?

Benny Profane wrote

ausable skier wrote

its really a matter of WF and Lake Placid being much more marketable farther afield.  WF has a higher yield per skier day as well so it makes more sense to invest more heavily in marketing for WF than it does Gore.

Gore likely would do the same skier days if it was agressively marketed or not.  I think that Gore does more skier days than WF but its pulling from a smaller geographic area market that that Gore can draw from compared to WF.  WF took skiers away from Mont Tremblant and VT this past year so the marketing was money well spent.  Gore got lots of expansion money and had a nice year as well.  Everyone should be happy.

How about being an hour or more closer to population centers to the south? What, are we just going to give up on NYC metro and market to the Great White North?

That's it. Back the truck up,,,,I'll toss a rope around the mtn and we'll drag that ol' gal south. Lol.

I don't think Gore's numbers are bad per se, just ORDA's repeated lame effort on Gore's behalf. Can't even mention Gore in that press release,,, bad. It will never change.

The exchange rate and big snow rose Face's numbers, not ORDA's efforts.

It's time to stop the bullshit..

Bell draws from the NYC metro area, population approx 22 million
Gore draw from the Capital District, population approx 1.2 million

If I had money to invest (ORDA), What area would you invest in. I'm not saying to stop investing in the other areas, but Bell is far from the redheaded stepchild someone is making out to be..

I think that Bell is a wise investment, but Gore and Bell draw from the same market. Bell is just closer making it an easier day trip for Metro NY/NJ

Harvey44 wrote

While I see ausable skier's point to some degree, I don't agree that marketing would make no difference in Gore's skier days. Regardless of where people are coming from, or whether or not they are destination skiers, or day skiers, they have choices. And how hard would it be to include Gore in a promotion?

It's also impossible to deny James' point.  If you think that Gore is "second banana" within ORDA, it's a pretty good spot to be in over the past 5 or 10 years. Currently the most visible example of this is the terrain expansion - probably more new terrain than any other mountain in NY. This is part of my thinking with regard to Belleayre.  Even if Belle doesn't get what some would consider "fair treatment" within ORDA, it's likely be to an improvement over the level of investment that is happening at the mountain now.

Call me a cave man, but I care far more about operational upgrades than marketing.

Gore has accomplished a lot. It may not be all things to all people (ie summer) but it's making progress at being more competitive in winter every year. And it's happened through a very difficult time economically. I realize that summer infrastructure upgrades to the winter product don't bring summer visitors to town, they do keep employees working.

1. Marketing to the NYC metro area would make a huge difference. Most skiers I have met over the years (in North Jersey) have no idea about Gore and if they have heard of Gore they think it is like 5 or 6 hours away(it is 3-4 hours). The fact that ORDA never promotes Gore or any events at Gore speaks volumes to where their loyalties lie. This will continue in an effort to justify the white elephant convention center they just wasted $18 million on. They love that Gore is a day area for the Albany/Hudson Valley region and runs cash flow positive. It obviously does not need any marketing (sarcasm).

2. Please stop the all the nonsense about all the money Gore finally received. Pataki earmarked the money for Gore. If he did not do this ORDA would have never released the money for Gore's expansion. By the way this expansion should have happened 20-30 years ago when it was first proposed. Also Gore's expansion was enevitable due to Gore's built out milage limit of 40 miles of trails (WF is limited to 25 miles). If this expansion was started in the late 1980s or early 1990s and slowly worked each summer rather than ignored until 1999 there would be no need for the massive infusions that Pataki finally had to release. Like it or not Gore is a business that competes with Vermont's ski resorts. It fell so far behind that only now is it finally able to compete with Vt again.

3. Belleayre is a way different market than Gore. I doubt there is any overlap.

x10003q wrote

1. Marketing to the NYC metro area would make a huge difference. Most skiers I have met over the years (in North Jersey) have no idea about Gore and if they have heard of Gore they think it is like 5 or 6 hours away(it is 3-4 hours).

I honestly think Gore could thrive (and spend more than they are likely to get) staying with the Capital District, and the Hudson Valley.  But if you want to go into the New York Metro...

NYC is really expensive to make a dent with any kind of traditional media, which is important when building a brand. Cover NYC and the Hudson Valley with digital media that can go after interest specific audiences (skiing).  Then use traditional media to focus on the areas that are really close to Gore - affluent areas along northern 287 in NJ and 87 in NY. Would be a fun project.

x10003q wrote

3. Belleayre is a way different market than Gore. I doubt there is any overlap.

I agree wholeheartedly. First of all a big part of Gore's market in North of Albany - these people aren't going to the Catskills regularly. And even close in points South of Albany probably head north to NY or So VT.

Plus - Long Island is big for the Catskills.  Laszlo told me that Platty's big draws were Long Island and Brooklyn.  Those poor folks spend so much time/aggravation getting off the island, I think they have less patience to go farther north.

My quess is that the only place Gore and Bell would overlap would be parts of the Hudson Valley.  It actually wouldn't shock me if WF and the Catskills had more customer overlap than Gore and the Cats.  

I said before, I bet there could be good synergy with a three way pass.  I guess the question is would that pass help steal biz from VT?