Old School v New School

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Old School v New School

Highpeaksdrifter
This post was updated on .
Below is a vid about Nordica's new Firearrow boot series. I'm not trying to pimp Nordica. I just want everyone to watch the first 25 seconds. In this vid Nordica is trying to point out the difference between how we skied before shaped skis and how we ski now. They contend boot technology has not kept up with ski technology.

Anyways the guy on the left is skiing old school, feet close together, active upper body, etc....the guy on the right has a wider stance, quiet upper body, smoother less severe movement.

I get that the conditions and terrain often dictate how we ski and that levels of ability matter when talking about technique. Also maybe some of you where not skiing before shaped skis.



Here are my questions:

Do you ski differently now than before shaped skis?
Do you ever work on skiing new school?
Do you care at all about your technique?
Do you care how others perceive you as a skier?
How much do you care about having the newest top end equipment?
There's truth that lives
And truth that dies
I don't know which
So never mind - Leonard Cohen
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Re: Old School v New School

Sick Bird Rider
This post was updated on .
Interesting questions! I see myself as an old schooler on some new school gear.

Here are my 2 cents.

Do you ski differently now than before shaped skis?
Yes. I feel that shaped skis have allowed me the to ski with more power and finally helped me figure out what this mysterious thing called "carving" is all about.

Do you ever work on skiing new school?
What exactly do you mean by this? FWIW I don't ski in the park, except to go off the jumps when nobody is looking. No rails, no switch (though that may change this year). I do have baggy pants.

Do you care at all about your technique?
Yes. My goal is to be a smooth skier, confident and comfortable in all conditions..

Do you care how others perceive you as a skier?
Yes and no. I hope that people on the chair might say "hey, that guy is a good skier." But if they don't, I really don't care.

How much do you care about having the newest top end equipment?
Not as much as it may appear. I am fortunate to be able to get good deals on gear through my employer. I want to have equipment that will make skiing easier and more fun. If that takes the latest thing, so be it.
Love Jay Peak? Hate Jay Peak? You might enjoy this: The Real Jay Peak Snow Report
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Re: Old School v New School

Condor
new school as in feet roughly shoulder width apart vs glued together. also having more lateral movement.
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Re: Old School v New School

Sick Bird Rider
On second thought...

I watched the video again. Old school guy is on a little rougher terrain than new school guy and his technique seems a bit exaggerated. Many old school skiers could have slayed that gnar in very smooth feet-together fashion. Whatever. I identify more with new school guy because I have skied with my feet apart for years. I always thought I was doing something wrong, now it appears that I was simply ahead of the curve. Probably has something to do with switching back and forth from tele to alpine. Who knows?

I'll be curious to hear what Matt the ski instructor has to say about this.

Send me a pair a pair of Fire Arrow boots and I'll let you know how it works out.
Love Jay Peak? Hate Jay Peak? You might enjoy this: The Real Jay Peak Snow Report
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Re: Old School v New School

sudsnbumps
In reply to this post by Sick Bird Rider
I love it...Great Marketing on Nordica's part.  Of course you ski differently on the new skis than the old straight ones.  If you don't think so go back and try a pair...If you don't have any I have a pair of 203 GS or 208 SL you can try and tell me what you think.  Up until last year I would bring them out for a few runs...my kids won't let me anymore

Question 2 N/A Anything shorter than 200cm or more than a 65mm waist is new school...IF I am on them I am working on them

I absolutely don't care about my technique nor do I care how anyone perceives the way I ski...I am a selfish skier and really only ski for me

The last question may be the hardest for me...I have to side with SBR if it makes me a better skier...able to push the limits without ending up wrapped around a tree or cartwheeling uncontrollably then yes...but I have a habit of prejudging like...Why would you want full rocker in the east?  Just buy shorter skis.  My opinion only but I want to see someone ski the new Volkl RTMs on Rumor on a boilerplate day...that could change my mind(just got my new(old) AC50s today :-)  



Proud to call Gore My Home Mountain
Covid stole what would have been my longest season ever!
I'll be back
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Re: Old School v New School

MC2 5678F589
In reply to this post by Highpeaksdrifter
Highpeaksdrifter wrote
I'm not trying to pimp Nordica.
Full Disclosure never hurts, though. I only say that because you might suddenly start seeing a lot of praise for Liberty Skis from me.

Do you ski differently now than before shaped skis?
Yes.
Do you ever work on skiing new school?
Yes. If you're working on your skiing these days, you're working on skiing "New School".
Do you care at all about your technique?
Yes. I'd better care, given that I teach skiing.
Do you care how others perceive you as a skier?
Yes. Even more so when I'm wearing the uniform.
How much do you care about having the newest top end equipment?
Not as much as some.  But I like my equipment to be relatively new (within the last 3-4 years), even though some of my stuff is creeping up on 10 years.

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Re: Old School v New School

70s Gore Kid
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Syracuse, NY
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Re: Old School v New School

ml242
I just watched this again, the comparison videos show two entirely different lines. I get the point, but I don't think the 1991 guy looks that bad for the terrain. So although I'm not answering any questions about my own skiing, the video isn't making me question the technology in my boots (which unlike 1991 boots have tech inserts, a walk mode, moldable liners, and custom footbeds).
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Re: Old School v New School

soulskier
My two cents worth. I find the new school boots to be less stiff vertically when driving the ski.
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Re: Old School v New School

bestschooler
Neither of those videos represent the epitomy of skiing at the time.
I know what the awsome skiers were doing in the "oldschooler" era and we were all turning heads doing whatever we wanted as we skied our hearts out where ever we went.
I have seen the awsome newschoolers who ski through the hot ski runs and they all turn heads as they do whatever they want.
Those two videos show pre thought out demonstrations of boring skiing.
Give skiing your best. See yourself imitating those who take advantage of the moguls in a zillion ways and don't be afraid to turn, angulate, unweight, check, get air, and let out some yahoos of pure joy!

I guess I’ve been skiing long enough to know firsthand the pros and cons of skiing with the “old fashioned ski gear” and at least I know the cons of some of the new stuff. Sorry I have not experience any of the improvements. I started skiing in about 1955 and by 1961 was teaching skiing and by 1966 was and examiner of ski instructors. I skied in Germany, Austria, France, Switzerland, Italy,… down the 11 mile Valley Blanche of Mt. Blanc, all over Kitzbuhel (where I met my wife), all over Zermatt, Cormier, Cervinia, St Anton, Zurs-Lech, Garmisch-Partenkirchen, in the Olympics of Washington, all over the Cascades, Mount Rainier, Mount Hood, the Canadian Rockies, Sun Valley, ad infinitum with ecstatic obsession like perfection before most of you were born though had you been I am sure you would have done the same even with the old equipment that was available at the time.
 
I started with wooden skis with cable bindings then went to wooden skis like Kastle, then to Head metal skis, and later White Star 220cm downhill racing skis with Marker bindings, long thong wraps around handmade for me soft leather Rogue boots from Munich Germany, as seen in my profile photos. My favorite skis were fisher imperator 207cm. They were stolen and I have never found skis to equal  them. My first instructor was a mirror image of Stein Erikson. My second ski instruction experience was with Jim and Louis Whittaker from whom I also learned mountaineering.  I developed and imported and marketed ski gear that changed the height of ski boots and the safety of ski equipment.  
 
I never had a problem with the old equipment though skiing in breakable crust with 220 down hills was a challenge requiring great effort. The effort though made my body ready to tackle all conditions with unweighting and angulation. I took it to the extreme doing jump turns that led to some calling me the jackrabbit in Garmisch, jumping off cliffs and skiing up one side of the roofs of houses to jump off the other when conditions permitted.  I just love snow.
 
My point? There are at least two ways to get better at skiing; the hard way with good longer narrower skis and the easy way with good shorter wider skis. I think what you see and learn from in the videos of Ingemar Stenmark and Jean-Claude Killy “The best and fastest way to learn a sport is to watch and imitate a champion.” Their techniques are examples of the culmination of their desires made manifest through the intent of ecstatic obsession like perfection probably by watching the best.
 
Bob Connor  … “Desire to Desire the best you can desire. Humbly humble self in search of wisdom to inspire.”
Ten percent imitate champions ninety percent passionately driven effort to do better.  
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Re: Old School v New School

campgottagopee
Z
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Re: Old School v New School

Z
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Highpeaksdrifter
Great thread but title might not be right as new school means more of a park and pipe type skier to me while really you are talking about what PSIA might call modern technique vs historical.

Absolutely changes in equipment have dramatically changed the way I ski and how i teach skiing.  Nordica is right in that skiing totally is more lateral through the boots than on old straight skis.  I tend to think its more diagonal instead of purely lateral - you want to direct your shins thru the boots boots into the direction of the new turn and that means its not truely lateral which would be at 90 degrees to the skis but more like at 45 degrees to the skis. What Nordica is saying is nothing new and ski boots have been designed with this in mind for at least the last 5-6 years.  

About 5 years ago I started taking the cuff hinge screws out of my boots to soften them from the 130 range down to about 100 while still keeping the lateral stiffness of a high end boot.  Try this to see if your boots are too stiff - do this indoors so you know the surface is flat - hop on one foot and see if you are flexing at the ankle and note if you are landing on the whole foot or not.  Then take the screws out of the back cuff (most high end boots have this feature) and do it again and you'll see how much easier this is.  That will help your skiing particularly in the bumps softer snow a lot.

I go to a PSIA clinic every season in part so that I can stay in tune with how ski technique and teaching is being affected by equipment changes.  Check back on my piece on the blog from December on how rocker affects technique.  I also try to demo lots of new and different ski designs from all ski makers so that I can understand how a particular ski will feel and needs to be driven so i can better work with my clients.

I'm somewhat of an equipment diva.  I have a quiver of 5 pairs of skis with none being older than 4 years old.  I just ordered another pair of Elan Amphibio 14's last week and I already have the 82 XTI version.  I love the new tip rocker designs with camber under foot.  The Elan Amphibio series offers rocker on the other edge and camber on the inner.  This is a combo that must be skied to believed as they hook up on both feet so nicely.  In powder you reverse the skis to get the benefit of more rocker.  Full disclosure - I am the pro rep for Elan and Dabello for Whiteface.

http://www.elanskis.com/us/technology/amphibio.html
if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time
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Re: Old School v New School

ScottyJack
In reply to this post by campgottagopee
campgottagopee wrote
I ride with Crazy Horse!
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Re: Old School v New School

campgottagopee
ScottyJack wrote
campgottagopee wrote
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Re: Old School v New School

ScottyJack
campgottagopee wrote
ScottyJack wrote
campgottagopee wrote
I ride with Crazy Horse!
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Re: Old School v New School

campgottagopee
ScottyJack wrote
campgottagopee wrote
ScottyJack wrote
campgottagopee wrote